[RESOLVED] TDC slew button inversion after firing AGM-65

[Alighierian]

For starters: I haven't figured out exactly how to replicate it, but it seems to show up relatively consistently after firing an AGM-65D or F (the D is still the mission loadout in the AGM-65 Practice mission). I am uncertain whether or not it also happens with the E, as it's a bit more involved to retarget something.

 

I initially noticed it in a lightly modded client updated to 2.5.6.5590, but the issue persisted after having disabled all mods.

 

Issue:

After firing one or multiple AGM-65's the button commands for TDC up/down / left/right get temporarily inverted.

 

Steps to replicate:

Step 1: Standard AGM-65 firing procedures: A2G master mode, MA on, stores page, IRMV selected, target acquisition via DMT sensor (TV), uncage, lock via TDC action, pickle to launch AGM

Step 2: Uncage for further target acquisition -> button slew inputs get inverted.

 

I've had it not invert after the first maverick, only after a later launch or DMT mode switch, but in my limited testing, the above seems to be enough to trigger it.

Going to a different mode again (INS/TV/IRMV) seems to temporarily fix it.

 

Clip:

 

Obviously a bit hard to tell my inputs from video, so I'll list it via timestamps:

0:03 - AGM-65D loadout (still selected as standard mission loadout for AGM-65 Practice.miz, same occurred with AGM-65F)

0:16 - setting up for launch

1:01 - Launch 1

1:03 - Uncage 2 - normal - inputs: right-left-up-down - relock

1:09 - Launch 2

1:11 - Uncage 3 - Inverted - inputs: right-left-right-left-up-down-up-down

[monkie]

This is happening to me also, and the IR AGM65F's don't seem to want to lock on, I constantly get the break locks where in the past they were rock solid on getting locks. Also when the slew is reversed it's slewing at a very fast rate vs the normal.

[Alighierian]

After reviewing it again, I've noticed it's linked to the INS mode and the TPOD. The Mav sensor should not be slewing when the target mode is set to INS, and doesn't do so normally. However, when using a TPOD for targeting, pressing TDC Down and then uncaging will enable INS with inverted slew in the maverick sensor view. The same happens when you target something, fire a Mav at it, and then uncage.

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

Ok you're kinda all over the place and I'm confused. So your saying if you aren't in MAV mode but instead INS, and in INS your slew is inverted in both X and Y axis while you have your Mavs uncaged and displayed? Do you have the DMT or TPOD window open on the opposite MPCD?

[Alighierian]

Ok you're kinda all over the place and I'm confused. So your saying if you aren't in MAV mode but instead INS, and in INS your slew is inverted in both X and Y axis while you have your Mavs uncaged and displayed? Do you have the DMT or TPOD window open on the opposite MPCD?

 

I should probably have updated the initial post as that was an earlier, and partially incorrect, assumption.

 

What I noticed:

The IRMV sensor window (both D and F) should, as far as I know, only have slew enabled when the sensor mode is set to IRMV. In INS the slew and target lock are unresponsive.

After certain actions, the IRMV sensor view ended up with inverted slew commands, both in X and Y.

 

Initial thoughts:

I initially experienced it after going through a firing cycle, that being: acquire via TPOD - uncage - lock - fire - uncage - acquire next target with IRMV view - lock - fire, which is what I thought it was related to, as mentioned in the first post.

 

Further testing:

After seeing another post about INS map slew being inverted, I went back and checked what mode the sensor view was in, which was INS. Some more testing resulted in the following:

 

Using the TPOD and pressing TDC Down (action) to lock on to something, as you would with the IRMV's sensor view, and then uncaging an IRMV, resulted in it activating in INS mode with slew commands active and inverted. I've not had it happen with the DMT TV sensor so far, only with the TPOD. Switching to a different sensor mode and back disables the IRMV window INS slew again.

 

 

edit:

some further and slightly more systematic testing:

• DMT-TV mode, DMT freely slewing
  
  • Uncaged IRMV window displays TV, and follows the TV target point, updating only when slewing stops
    

  [*]TPOD-TPOD mode, TPOD freely slewing

  • Uncaged IRMV window displays INS, and follows the TPOD target point, updating only when slewing stops
    

  [*]TPOD-INS mode (didn't even know that was a thing, tbh), the TPOD doesn't slew until after TDC Down is pressed.

  • TPOD slew inverted and slowed down, Y significantly slower than X (horizontal flight, terrain ahead as target)
    
  • Uncaged IRMV window displays INS, inverted slew, faster than TPOD-INS slew, TPOD slew follows IRMV-INS slew, resulting in a faster TPOD slew.
    

In all modes setting the sensor to IRMV enabled normal IRMV slew behaviour (non-inverted, TPOD/DMT-TV not following IRMV slew)

 

I'm not entirely sure how the TPOD-INS mode fits in, as the normal TPOD slewing updates the map marker.

Please to correct me if I'm wrong on this, but is IRMV-INS meant to be used with the EHSD for map location-based targeting? I'm wondering if that's the case since when I have the EHSD open and an uncaged IRMV set to INS, it follows the map cursor slew. That just makes me wonder what TPOD-INS is for, and why it activates when the stores page/IRMV sensor view is on the other display.

 

At this point, I don't know how much of this is user error / me misunderstanding certain functions, or if parts are potentially not working/interacting as they should.

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

Thats very helpful thankyou. Just note too that if no Sensor is displayed on the opposite MPCD for now the TDC slew is not inverted on the EHSD page but when another sensor is brought up on the RIGHT MPCD then it inverts.

[Saruman]

Same problem for me. I began seriously studying the aircraft only a few hours ago (despite having bought it after it was released) and sometimes (read: a lot of times) slewing is inverted. I cannot say when and why it happens, because I'm not trained to the aircraft and its avionics so I do a lot of things by trial. But I can say it happens to me even if I do not shoot anything (I can only shoot Sidearms at the moment).

[Flagrum]

I had experienced something similar, but haven't had the time to investigate it futher. But at that moment, it seemed to me, that slewing the TPOD was using the world coordinates of the target point as reference, and not the screen coordinates of the display.

This was very confusing, because as you fly the relation of target point and aircraft was constantly changing and thus was the direction of the TPOD movement when using the same slew control.

[FrancisIsHere]

Same here. Slew controls are relative to the direction the aircraft is facing, so they invert when the target is behind and move diagonally when you are flanking. This happens to the DMT as well.

[Shot]

Same here although I can't link it to the AGM-65. I think it happens already by just pointing the TPOD somewhere - as soon as the point is not directly in front of you anymore, the controls are screwed that you slew it properly anymore. Example: Target is on your 9 o'clock position. Quite sure this was introduced in the early Nov Update.

[Dr Zaius]

I don't think this is just Maverick related, i’m just leaning the jet myself and the sensor training mission highlights the same inversion issue, for a beginner who isn't sure of the proper functionality it’s incredibly confusing and in a vain attempt to sort the issue I’ve changed my control setup at least 3 times; then i read this post - my controls invert and the slew speed seems to drastically slow down as well, another weird thing i noticed is the dmt tv target box isn't in sync properly when i move it, the box jumps to a much larger box thats a measurable distance below where it should be until you stop slewing, then it jumps back to a the normal small box in the correct position thats synced with both the hud and mpcd, very odd.

 

i did notice the slewing issue also applies to the moving map as well, if you enter into North Up mode and attempt to slew a waypoint the inversion makes itself known, that almost makes sense if you think about because the controls felt like they flipped with the map image, irl however that would be a really stupid way to do it and I seriously doubt its supposed to work like that.

 

In a way I’m glad its not working the way it should, I honestly thought it was me doing it all wrong and the more i tried the work the problem the more i was tying myself in knots - I take it these issues didn’t exist in the past?

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

HTS mode is working in all modes. Marking as RESOLVED and moving to RESOLVED.

[Go_dzilla]

Hi all,

I think I found the issue:

On the right MPCD in TV mode, the TDC slew commands are inversed when compared to INS mode.

Below is a link to a video. You can jump to 04:00 to get to the point, but I left everything in to show what lead up to this point.
https://youtu.be/HMNjaCku_2k


-Targeting pod was not equipped.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Go_dzilla

[AlphaJuliet]

Taking a look

[BBL]

Hey Elmo, could you please explain what is resolved, or how it is resolved?

For me TDC is inverted, in TPOD TDC is barely moving in vertical axis, when HUD is used to designate target on pressing target designate it designates random spot on ground (not the one under the flight path marker) and so on....

 

When your company will fix this, since the module is unusable in this state? This is such a waste of money....

[Go_dzilla]

I think by resolved they mean "Yes it's inverted, so what? You don't use the seeker in INS mode anyways."

My experience with the Harrier II was limited to the 2 weeks trial period. Only played online but I did get to use most of the weapons AA and AG(Sidearm, Mavs, APKWS, and Laser guided bombs) in their respective modes without any inverted command issues. Not much radio or navigation practicing. So it is possible that I missed something and that the INS mode is used. But I guess I'll find out soon. Just got the keys to my brand new personal AV-8B Harrier II few days ago during a sales.

There's just something about flying McDonnell Douglas jets that I really like, couldn't put my finger on it though.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Go_dzilla

[Ramsay]

2 hours ago, Go_dzilla said:

I think by resolved they mean "Yes it's inverted, so what?"

The initial report is over 12 months old, IIRC the devs thought the issue (IRMAV slewing) resolved and the report moved to the "Resolved section". However after the Gen 3 TPOD update, there was a major regression inverting INS slewing across multiple systems i.e. EHSD, IRMav, etc.

AFAIK the bug is under investigation - i.e.

• should slews on the EHSD move relative to to track-up or north-up or change depending on mode,
• should HUD/IRMAV slews be relative to the aircraft's track/nose

... either way the current INS slew behaviour is inconsistent to how it worked previously with slews to left - moving right, etc.

2 hours ago, Go_dzilla said:

You don't use the seeker in INS mode anyways.

While using the TPOD to designate targets works well in TPOD mode (sensor select double tap), slewing the system designation  in INS mode is inverted and INS/System designation is used in many ways i.e. EHSD, HUD designation/slews, IRMav, DMT TV, etc.

You should note that the AV-8B isn't always be equipped with a TPOD and prior to ~2002, system designations (INS) was done via EHSD, DMT, IRMAV and HUD, as the TPOD wasn't available.

Even when TPOD equipped, a common reason to use the IRMAV seeker in INS mode is to slew to near by targets and ripple fire several mavericks, one after the other.

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Ramsay

[Go_dzilla]

So your saying, the IRMAV mode(amongst others) is a sub mode of the INS mode, ergo if slewing the seeker in INS mode is inverted then slewing it in IRMAV mode should be as well?

I always thought of those(and other) modes as independent.

[Ramsay]

1 hour ago, Go_dzilla said:

if slewing the seeker in INS mode is inverted then slewing it in IRMAV mode should be as well?

AFAIK none of those should have inverted slewing, TDC left should not slew to the right, except perhaps for slews on the EHSD map in "north up" when the aircraft is flying south i.e. HUD movement might be inverted when EHSD is SOI or vice versa (IIRC these were the only "inverted" slews that used to occur).

How DCS's AV-8B behaviour is coded is something only the dev's know.

1 hour ago, Go_dzilla said:

I always thought of those(and other) modes as independent.

AFAIK the sensors (HUD LOS, DMT TV, IRMAV) are independent, however they can be slaved to the INS designation made by another sensor and the system/LOS  designation they make is an INS one i.e. you might make a system designation using the HUD/FPM (or EHSD) and then sweeten the INS designation using the DMT TV followed by a final IRMAV slew/designation.

[71st_Mastiff]

yes Im having this happen with the TDC also not on axis. but on a throttle hat and it's frustrating when this happens.