AIM-54 Changes / new API fixes are live in today's patch

[IronMike]

Dear all,

 

for a while now we had our side of the code needed for the new API to work in the release version of the F-14, however we did not inform you until now as these changes were not working at all or not as intended, and practically showed no difference - hence it was no change that warranted a changelog entry so far.

 

Now Eagle Dynamics helped fix some of the remaining issues on their side, which means that the new API might be working as of today's patch, but it is not well tested yet. Equally it is not in the patch notes, as we did not commit anything really, however the changelog entry is planned for Nov 18th.

 

In light of these API changes now being active, we would like to ask for your feedback. It would help us greatly finalize the item before the next patch, if possible, as our main testing focus at the moment lies on the A.

 

To recap the changes and how it should work:

 

1. TWS with range >10NM: LTE (launch to eject) 3s, loft, SARH/DL, missile goes active at 16 seconds TTI (time-to-impact)

 

2. PDSTT with range >10NM: LTE 3s, loft, SARH/DL, missile does not go active (SARH/DL all the way to target)

 

3. TWS or PDSTT with range <10NM, or PH ACT selected: LTE 3s, no loft, active directly after launch

 

4. PSTT or BRSIT or (ACM cover up with no track or PSTT or PDSTT): LTE 1s (unless STT and angle >15deg then 3s), no loft, active immediately

 

5. This also means the in-flight missiles with TWS will no longer go active if tracking is lost, the F-14 is destroyed, the radar is disabled etc. before 16s TTI. However, the WCS can keep a track file stored for up to 2 minutes (for targets under missile attack) and send an active signal to the Phoenix pointing it into the target’s likely position, if the track has not updated for a certain time

 

6. If working as intended, you will not see the terminal phase maneuver the missile does at 7nm to the target (or 15km). Instead you should observe it going active when 16 seconds away from impact. This is best tested with a 2nd player in MP, by taking the time between the RWR warning and being hit.

 

Please note: the 16 seconds TTI will not always be exact, as DCS doesn't have a simulated missile flyout, etc. Loft, relative velocities and whether the target maneuvers or not can impact the timer being right or wrong as well. So it should be taken with a grain of salt and as a general guide line, rather than a solid value to always be 100% correct. This means: it will go active at 16 seconds TTI as indicated on the TID, just that it may not be quite 16s in reality at that stage. How big this margin might be, we cannot really say, due to the numerous factors it depends on. Please keep that in mind. The TTI is a WCS calculated TTI and not a real TTI.

 

ATM we are suspecting that SARH guidance might not work as intended in PDSTT yet: it reportedly keeps tracking when lock is lost, and we need to investigate this further.

 

 

 

Any kind of feedback you have is greatly appreciated. We will use this thread for it. We hope that we are now very close to finalizing the phoenixes. Thank you!

Edited November 4, 2020 by IronMike

[VC]

Please note: the 16 seconds TTI will not always be exact... it will go active at 16 seconds TTI as indicated on the TID, just that it may not be quite 16s in reality at that stage. How big this margin might be, we cannot really say, due to the numerous factors it depends on. Please keep that in mind. [/b]

 

Last time I fired Phoenixes that margin was enormous. The missiles hit while TID still had 30 seconds or more to impact. In the new system, those missiles would never have gone active. Would they have hit in SARH?

 

Can you also elaborate a little on stored track, when exactly the missile is commanded active, and what HUD symbology we should look out for to know if/when this happens? Can a track ever be reacquired?

 

 

[Karon]

Oh, is it Christmas already? :)

 

It looks like I found something to do tonight (testing). Amazing job folks, as usual.

[IronMike]

 

Last time I fired Phoenixes that margin was enormous. The missiles hit while TID still had 30 seconds or more to impact. In the new system, those missiles would never have gone active. Would they have hit in SARH?

 

Can you also elaborate a little on stored track, when exactly the missile is commanded active, and what HUD symbology we should look out for to know if/when this happens? Can a track ever be reacquired?

 

 

Last time... should likeley be irrelevant due to the broken/old API before today's patch.

 

They would have hit in SARH, if they would have had enough energy. Since the timer was rather random-ish at times with the old API, hard to say in such a situation. Note also that the timer goes on when the missile misses the target until it self destructs, I forgot how many seconds after the calculated impact.

 

The TTI is btw also WCS calculated tti, not real tti.

 

EDIT: If a track is lost the missile will not go active at all. If a contact is lost or not correlating with track anymore, however, and the track only gets updated by dead reckoning and not by real radar returns, after a certain time, the missile will receive an active signal and get sent to the last assumed position of the lost track. Such stored track files can last up to two minutes, for example when launched with "track hold". A lost track cannot be reacquired as in receiving all of the same data displayed for the same missile. In both cases there is no symbology iirc to notify you on the hud/ etc. In that sense, assume the missile was trashed to be on the safe side.

Edited November 4, 2020 by IronMike

[Karon]

@IronMike is the new API affecting the AI as well? The plain is being the target, for instance marking when the RWR yells and when the missile hits and check other details via TacView). It would speed up the tests immensely (e.g. faster scenario restarts, tests are more consistent, etc).

[Lurker]

"However, the WCS can keep a track file stored for up to 2 minutes (for targets under missile attack) and send an active signal to the Phoenix pointing it into the target’s likely position, if the track has not updated for a certain time"

 

What does this mean exactly? I mean how are we supposed to know whether the track file is stored and the missile has received an active signal or whether the missile has been trashed?

[Noctrach]

You can still see the track on the TID but it has a small cross in it when it hasn't been updated recently.

You will not see whether the missile has received a signal or has been trashed.

[Lurker]

You can still see the track on the TID but it has a small cross in it when it hasn't been updated recently.

You will not see whether the missile has received a signal or has been trashed.

 

Ahh, okay got it. Thanks for the reply.

 

[VC]

@IronMike thank you for the detailed reply. I look forward to testing the implementation in that case!

[RichardG]

I cant use Track Hold from the pilot seat.

[Skysurfer]

Nice! Glad to finally see progress on this one. As a sidenote with the PH ACT switch flipped in the RIO pit and PDSTT SARH guidence the missile should still be active off the rail and receive SARH/DL correction as long as PDSTT is maintained, correct? At least that is the way I understood it.

[Spurts]

What is Track Hold and how does a RIO use it (low time RIO here)

[IronMike]

@IronMike is the new API affecting the AI as well? The plain is being the target, for instance marking when the RWR yells and when the missile hits and check other details via TacView). It would speed up the tests immensely (e.g. faster scenario restarts, tests are more consistent, etc).

 

Most likely not, as the AI does not seem to fire in TWS at all at the moment. It will work against it, but not with it, if that makes sense. For good test results either player vs AI or player vs player is best.

[Noctrach]

What is Track Hold and how does a RIO use it (low time RIO here)

 

I cant use Track Hold from the pilot seat.

 

Track Hold is a button the RIO has on theTID to tell the AWG-9 to keep updating a track for up to 2 minutes, irrespective of whether it has been correlated with a radar hit.

It can be manually enabled for targets you're tracking and is always enabled for targets under missile attack.

 

I.e. if you fire in TWS, trackhold is automatically enabled for targets you launched on.

 

In light of these changes, I'm more curious to know to what extent the AWG-9 will be capable of resolving "false" tracks originating from a cranking target, because right now it's very poor at doing this.

I guess we'll see that in the update on the 18th @IronMike ?

[BreaKKer]

Curious when the “Active Phoenix Command” in the back seat will be implemented. I remember it was mentioned on a podcast with Heatblur.

[uhntissbaby111]

In regards to DCS not simulating missile fly out. What exactly is missile fly out?

[Xeno426]

Can PDSTT reacquire targets? Say a target notches and breaks lock; if the RIO re-acquires lock, will it be able to continue guiding the Phoenix or will the missile be trashed?

[IronMike]

Curious when the “Active Phoenix Command” in the back seat will be implemented. I remember it was mentioned on a podcast with Heatblur.

 

 

It should be working, no? I need to check.

 

[IronMike]

In light of these changes, I'm more curious to know to what extent the AWG-9 will be capable of resolving "false" tracks originating from a cranking target, because right now it's very poor at doing this.

I guess we'll see that in the update on the 18th @IronMike ?

 

TWS will always be a bad option for maneuvering targets, atm no changes are planned, so how it handles such situations will be as it is now.

 

 

[VC]

So could you use the active command (presumably human RIO only) while firing in STT to force the missile active so you can break off and defend?

[Karon]

 

Most likely not, as the AI does not seem to fire in TWS at all at the moment. It will work against it, but not with it, if that makes sense. For good test results either player vs AI or player vs player is best.

 

Cheers, I'll set up something else.

 

 

Meanwhile, I have a friend (=TIA= Yaze) doing some tests. He fired at 40, 30 and 10 nm vs an F-16, TA 0° and 180° in TWS and in no cases the 16's RWR shown the '54 active. I'll try myself tonight.

[Skysurfer]

So could you use the active command (presumably human RIO only) while firing in STT to force the missile active so you can break off and defend?

 

Theoreticall yes. This would make it active off the rail but still receive mid-course corrections as long as a lock is held.

[QuiGon]

Curious when the “Active Phoenix Command” in the back seat will be implemented. I remember it was mentioned on a podcast with Heatblur.

I'm afraid there might be some missunderstanding there.

 

The Active Phoenix Command is being send by the AWG-9 when the Phoenix has been fired in TWS and is at 16 TTI. This is not something the RIO can do! It's the radar that does it on its own!

What the RIO can do is something entirely different: He has a "Phoenix Active" setting, that he can enable with the respective switch to launch a Phoenix in active mode. It does not command a Phoenix active that is already in the air!

[QuiGon]

@IronMike

That's really great news! :thumbup:

I'm waiting pretty desperately for the new Phoenix guidance for quite some time and will check it out for sure!

 

One question though: Shouldn't the TID indicate if the "Go Active" command has been send by making the TTI number appear flashing instead of a solid indication, so that the crew knows when it can break off?

[BreaKKer]

 

 

It should be working, no? I need to check.

 

The command that allows the RIO to manually tell the Phoenix to go active, as compared to the 16 second TTI. The active switch that you are thinking of is to send a Phoenix off the rails active.