What am I doing wrong with the CCIP?

[SlipHavoc]

I'm trying to do simple CCIP bombing in the F-18 and not having much luck. I dropped 10 Mk 82s and scored only 3 hits, while I'm 5 out of 5 in the F-16. Attached are my track files and the mission I threw together to test this. A few months ago I reported this as a bug, but apparently it couldn't be reproduced, so if it's not a bug, it must be me screwing up somehow. The F-16 seems to be perfectly accurate though, so I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong in the F-18. I have the AGR radar mode up, and I'm putting the pipper on the target... That should be everything, right? Anyone have an idea what I'm missing (other than the targets, ha ha)? Thanks!

CCIP accuracy test F-16 5 of 5.trk

CCIP accuracy test F-18 3 of 10.trk

Target Range ISA conditions.miz

[imacken]

I have always struggled with unguided bombs in the Hornet. I can do no better than you in that mission. No doubt there will be many people who will pick up the track and get 10 out of 10, but I'm with you.

Of course, the damage model that shows only damage within 2 or 3 metres of massive bombs doesn't help!

[SlipHavoc]

A few patches ago though, the F-18 was almost perfectly accurate, just like the F-16 is now. I can deal with bombs not doing much damage (I'm actually not even sure that's entirely unrealistic in these cases, but that's another topic), but the lack of accuracy is really frustrating, especially when at least one other plane doesn't have the same problem.

[imacken]

I would post this in the Bugs section and see what is said by BN.

Certainly there is a huge difference between the Hornet and the Viper in this respect.

[Tony86]

Hi guys

it is the same for me.

before, i used to get good ccip with the f18 and now my ccip is going crazy (almost horizontal line)

like if there were 150 knts of crosswind

it is unpracticable

some people Said it was an ins problem but for sure my ins is good to go. I have already check my ins config (with and without gps)

do i need to have ground radar active on my ddi to perform ccip?

i often play left and right ddi with EW page and SA page.

[imacken]

Funnily enough, I noticed that in the 2nd mission (I think) of the 1989 campaign. The DIL was at an angle of around 60-70 degrees off centre. Impossible to bomb anything. I never though of checking the INS as I assumed that it would be good to go on the carrier ramp.

[Harker]

It might be an INS issue, the INS attitude calculation sometimes degrades very quickly, without GPS. Before bombing, try doing either an INS Update or an IFA, might help. And use AGR.

 

It's best practice to keep the HSI/SA on the MPCD and use the right DDI for your sensor of choice. But even if you don't have the Radar page visible, you can still command AGR with SCS Fwd, when in A/G mode, with an appropriate weapon selected.

[Preendog]

Just so no one thinks they're crazy, I did a brief test to see the state of CCIP.

 

Conditions: 1000 feet AGL, 550ish kts. Attack a row of 10 targets with CCIP with MK83. Crimea map, over the flat plains by the water. Pristine airstart INS. Use time compression so all drops are pixel-perfect on the 3D model of the target.

 

 

RALT on, AGR off: All hits 20m short. (In this mode, the CCIP floats up and down as you fly over hills. Your current RALT sets the pipper)

RALT on, AGR on: All hits 20m short. (In this mode, CCIP not affected by RALT. The pipper will sometimes flicker if you place it near the top of a hill. The game is using a raycast to find ground height, presumably where the pipper is.)

RALT off, AGR off: All hits 50m short. (It's interesting to note that adjusting the baro altimeter setting doesn't affect the pipper. It did in previous versions, you could even have the pipper above your plane.)

 

Curious to see if dive angle matters:

RALT on AGR on, 85 degree dive, release at 10,000ft: All direct hits.

 

And curious to see if bomb type matters:

RALT on, AGR on, MK82: All hits 20m short.

 

Curious if wind matters:

RALT on, AGR on, 50kt crosswind: All hits 20m short. Wind was perfectly compensated.

 

INS matters?:

RALT on, AGR on, INS switched to OFF, then to IFA. CCIP appears at 21 seconds and bombing begins at 24 seconds: All hits 20m short. Laterally the aim is still perfect.

 

Height of target matters?:

RALT on, AGR on, targets are boat at sea level: All hits 20m short.

 

 

 

So yes, it's pooched in some way. I fear it won't get fixed unless one of us exhaustively tests to find the exact cause of the bug. A workaround is to do steep dive bombing. The shallower you dive, the more you should aim beyond the target. AGR is required if you are over hilly ground.

 

Trivia: If you select AGR, then turn off the radar power switch, the AGR continues to function normally. If you then select AA master mode, the AA b-scope will not appear. The A/G radar scope will appear instead.

[Preendog]

Also, a video of the tilted CCIP line.

 

Replication:

 

-Be in CCIP with AGR on or off.

-Do a violent turn.

-The CCIP fall line will sometimes be tilted after the turn.

 

Edit: After some more tries, this is perfectly replicable. If the player ever exceeds a certain G threshold, the line gets bent. If you are turning left, the line will get bent right, and vice versa. The magnitude of the bent is based on how long you over-G (over-G a long time, and it get's really slanted. Over-G briefly, only a little slanted). The duration of the slant is consistently about 33-35 seconds (INS in IFA mode). After this delay, the CCIP will abruptly pop back into the correct position.

 

If your INS is in NAV mode it doesn't recover.

[SniperRu]

I noticed the same thing a couple of patches ago. It (CCIP) used to be very accurate but now the bombs always land short/long.

[Nealius]

How do you turn AGR on/off? Mine appears to be off by default, and neither Chuck's guides nor the ED manual explain where this setting resides in the avionics.

[Dr_Watson]

Same problem here, was on Hoggit training server, CCIP line was about 90 degrees out the SIDE, so just release when I thought I should, CCIP was about 200 yards to the right of the bridge, and hit the bridge dead on! There is a slight wind in that server, sometimes the CCIP line is straight, depending on the aircraft heading and pitch, but as soon you you nose down slightly, it goes off to the side. Definitely a big, no user error as worked perfect before.

 

[imacken]

How do you turn AGR on/off? Mine appears to be off by default, and neither Chuck's guides nor the ED manual explain where this setting resides in the avionics.

 

That video suggests that it is on all the time, but you can display it by SCS forward. I'm a little confused by AGR and its use. I might start a new thread or see if there is one already on this topic.

[Al-Azraq]

I’m finding CCIP bombing with he Mk 82s inaccurate as well. I set up a simple escenario with Strelas and air start but my bombs miss a lot of time. I remember that while I was learning DCS I practiced with the Hornet in CCIP and had a high impact rate. Now I have way more experience yet my bombs miss although I do the 30 - 45 degree dive, line is aligned, etc.

[Joni]

Someone please post a track in the bug section. 

 

there are tons of threads about this CCIP bug but no one gets reported.

 

I see no issues, but if you guys are it'll be good to post a track.

[Al-Azraq]

Hey guys and girls,

 

I’m finding CCIP bombing with the Mk 82s inaccurate. I set up a simple escenario with Strelas and air start but my bombs miss a lot of time.

 

I remember that while I was learning DCS I practiced with the Hornet in CCIP and had a high impact rate. I was very surprised about how easy and accurate it was, especially coming from WW2.

 

Now I have way more experience yet my bombs miss although I do the 30 - 45 degree dive, line is aligned, etc. all by the book.

 

Despite this, bombs are always short or impact left or right of the cross and rarely hit the target. Now jump into the F-16C, and CCIP is pinpoint accurate.

 

Here I attach the track using Nevada default bombing mission and the corresponding video.

 

 

Hornet CCIP bug.trk

[Drac]

You are not the only one.  I also have the same issue.  It has been discussed many times before.

[Al-Azraq]

Yeah I know buddy. I posted it on Reddit and had plenty of responses there. I posted it in another thread and Nineline said it was fine on his end. However, I tested it further today and I'm missing all my drops, something's off.

 

Others point an IFA issue related to the mission's date. If GPS wasn't available at the set mission year, alignment will degrade very quickly. I'm yet to test that.

[Joni]

Maybe this is fine, but what is 100% confirmed is that it's different than before.

 

Before, you could hit a tiny ant in CCIP, now you may miss a whole tank.

 

So maybe now it is more realistic, with the innacuracies of the real system.

 

It is a bug for me though, based on how exact the errors are every single time, so I don't think it is due to innacuracies.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Joni

[Al-Azraq]

1 hour ago, Joni said:

Maybe this is fine, but what is 100% confirmed is that it's different than before.

 

Before, you could hit a tiny ant in CCIP, now you may miss a whole tank.

 

So maybe now it is more realistic, with the innacuracies of the real system.

 

It is a bug for me though, based on how exact the errors are every single time, so I don't think it is due to innacuracies.

 

 

You have a good point there! But as seen in Nineline videos in the other thread, it is working fine for him so I guess that it is something that we are missing, or his build is not entirely like ours.

 

Also, I think that we should be testing it using the same mission.

[Joni]

12 minutes ago, Al-Azraq said:

 

 

 

Also, I think that we should be testing it using the same mission.

 

That's why I asked him to check my track but I got no response.

[Tom Kazansky]

On 11/9/2020 at 2:03 AM, SniperRu said:

I noticed the same thing a couple of patches ago. It (CCIP) used to be very accurate but now the bombs always land short/long.

+1

[Knock-Knock]

Has this been reported and acknowledged?
Just tried some 20 runs (30 degree dive with AGR) with Mk82's (2 with 20ft interval) on a T-55, and I hit both long and short (seems 'fast' hits short, and 'slow' hits long), but not a single hit. Then jumped in the Harrier and I score direct hits every single time.
Havent used the Hornet for CCIP for quite some time, but I do remember it being bang on.

[Coding]

can not reproduce in modern dated mission

ignore my not so awesome ending...

bombing.trk

[Preendog]

A reminder that tilting your INS (which in the FA-18 means one gentle turn) will screw up the bombsight, and it will be totally wrong until the next IFA update.

Al-Azraq, you can see at 1:17 the bomb fall line jerks suddenly to the left.  This was the IFA update, and before that the bombsight was in error.  The magnitude of the jerk is approximately the distance you missed by.

on the AMPCD select POS/GPS instead of POS/INS if GPS is available. That will fix the problem with the bomb fall line.  -Svend_Dellepude

 

On 12/17/2020 at 9:51 AM, Al-Azraq said:

Here I attach the track using Nevada default bombing mission and the corresponding video.

 

 

Hornet CCIP bug.trk 1.61 MB · 34 downloads

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Preendog