reported Fw 190 D-9 Dora Engine Bug

[River]

The Dora still has this weird engine blow bug when cruising at lower RPMs like 2600 / 2700. The Dora is known for random engine failures for two or more years now.

This is confirmed by other users, for example Storm of War players and the workarround is to just keep the RPMs at 3000 or higher which then seems to prevent the motor from blowing up.

 

I tried to attach a track file but the forum says it´s too big, was just a 6 minute flight or so. No idea how to prove it as others have problems to repeat this in SP tests.

 

Attached are two pictures which are 5 seconds appart. The engine was fully warmed up and I never went above 2800 RPM during this flight. The engine died three times during three sorties.

 

THIS IS A MAJOR BUG, KNOWN FOR A LONG TIME. The Aircraft we bought is not working as expected. The new cooling update yesterday did nothing to it. The engine keeps blowing up for no reason at lower RPMs.

 

The module is not working as it should but we paid the price you asked for.

 

[amazingme]

The Dora still has this weird engine blow bug when cruising at lower RPMs like 2600 / 2700. The Dora is known for random engine failures for two or more years now.

This is confirmed by other users, for example Storm of War players and the workarround is to just keep the RPMs at 3000 or higher which then seems to prevent the motor from blowing up.

 

I tried to attach a track file but the forum says it´s too big, was just a 6 minute flight or so. No idea how to prove it as others have problems to repeat this in SP tests.

 

Attached are two pictures which are 5 seconds appart. The engine was fully warmed up and I never went above 2800 RPM during this flight. The engine died three times during three sorties.

 

THIS IS A MAJOR BUG, KNOWN FOR A LONG TIME. The Aircraft we bought is not working as expected. The new cooling update yesterday did nothing to it. The engine keeps blowing up for no reason at lower RPMs.

 

The module is not working as it should but we paid the price you asked for.

 

I confirm this behaviour.. I stopped flying the Dora because of this. It's just sad that this beauty doesn't get any love from ED anymore.. :(

 

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[wju]

the same here,

SoW server this morning

autostart, warming up coolant temperature to 100, Oil to 110 before taxi;

taxi, take off, climbing to approx 4000meters with 2700rpm; then bum, engine failure :-(

consecutive 3x times!!!

 

some hints:

it may have to do something with outside temperature as this behavior is less frequent in afternoon mission, when temperature is a bit higher

it may also be caused by prohibited MW-50? (just speculation)

cannot remember when I had this failrule on SP

please fix or explain how to manage the engine to avoid this

 

 

[amazingme]

the same here,

SoW server this morning

autostart, warming up coolant temperature to 100, Oil to 110 before taxi;

taxi, take off, climbing to approx 4000meters with 2700rpm; then bum, engine failure :-(

consecutive 3x times!!!

 

some hints:

it may have to do something with outside temperature as this behavior is less frequent in afternoon mission, when temperature is a bit higher

it may also be caused by prohibited MW-50? (just speculation)

cannot remember when I had this failrule on SP

please fix or explain how to manage the engine to avoid this

 

According to Yo-Yo the engine should run @3200rpm without MW-50 (max 1.54ATA?) in Continuous mode and @3250rpm with MW-50 (1.98ATA), it should run for 10 minutes followed by a cooldown..

 

L.E. correction.. 3250rpm with MW-50 and max 1.54ATA

 

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[grafspee]

According to Yo-Yo the engine should run @3200rpm without MW-50 (1.54ATA?) in Continuous mode and @3200rpm with MW-50 (1.98ATA), it should run for 10 minutes followed by a cooldown..

 

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Wrong,

jumo-213 uses different boost controller and boost is controlled in differ way than it is in other warbirds,

Continuous power is 3000rpm, 3250rpm become continuous power above 7km alt

30 min limit is 3250rpm below 7km of alt

and 10min with mw-50 and 3250 rpm.

Ata is not included in power setting because ATA will change with alt and ambient temp while rpm will remain steady. Set up mission with hot start on runway in 2 variants one with 0C ambient temp and other with 25C, then open throttle to max and check what ATA engine is running during take off

But i think everyone already noticed it, if ever have flown FW-190D in DCS.

[amazingme]

https://forums.eagle.ru/mobiquo/redirect.php?pid=6137411

 

 

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[grafspee]

https://forums.eagle.ru/mobiquo/redi...hp?pid=6137411

 

 

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30min combat 3250 rpm

and continous 3000 rpm.

as i said you cant assign ata for power settings, ata will go up and down in different situations, mw-50 do not change rpm.

This is part where you can increase to 3250rpm for continuous power

[grafspee]

the same here,

SoW server this morning

autostart, warming up coolant temperature to 100, Oil to 110 before taxi;

taxi, take off, climbing to approx 4000meters with 2700rpm; then bum, engine failure :-(

consecutive 3x times!!!

 

 

You are doing it wrong, avoid at all cost to get 100C coolant, as soon you get 60C coolant and 40C oil start taxing and take off, avoid at all costs engine rpm to go below 1000rpm while taxing.

Then take off with full power, absolutely do not take off with 2700rpm, just push throttle to the gate, this helps clear engine after ground operations, then keep full power until you climb lets say 500m, then reduce rpm to 3000rpm, climb to your desired cruise alt, then drop rpm for cruise.

Warm up same, keep rpm 1000-1200, at beginning of warm up you can keep cooling doors closed, but as soon you get about 50C coolant open them a little to keep coolant far from 100C if necessary open them fully.

After take off close cooling doors a little to engage auto cooling.

[wju]

 

You are doing it wrong, avoid at all cost to get 100C coolant, as soon you get 60C coolant and 40C oil start taxing and take off, avoid at all costs engine rpm to go below 1000rpm while taxing.

Then take off with full power, absolutely do not take off with 2700rpm, just push throttle to the gate, this helps clear engine after ground operations, then keep full power until you climb lets say 500m, then reduce rpm to 3000rpm, climb to your desired cruise alt, then drop rpm for cruise.

Warm up same, keep rpm 1000-1200, at beginning of warm up you can keep cooling doors closed, but as soon you get about 50C coolant open them a little to keep coolant far from 100C if necessary open them fully.

After take off close cooling doors a little to engage auto cooling.

 

You are right, I have just checked the manual; the engine warming instructions are bit different to what I have read in Chuck´s guide. Weird. I give a try tonight.

[NineLine]

Is this still an issue for anyone?

[amazingme]

 

You are doing it wrong, avoid at all cost to get 100C coolant, as soon you get 60C coolant and 40C oil start taxing and take off, avoid at all costs engine rpm to go below 1000rpm while taxing.

Then take off with full power, absolutely do not take off with 2700rpm, just push throttle to the gate, this helps clear engine after ground operations, then keep full power until you climb lets say 500m, then reduce rpm to 3000rpm, climb to your desired cruise alt, then drop rpm for cruise.

Warm up same, keep rpm 1000-1200, at beginning of warm up you can keep cooling doors closed, but as soon you get about 50C coolant open them a little to keep coolant far from 100C if necessary open them fully.

After take off close cooling doors a little to engage auto cooling.

FALSE! Dora must be warmed up well before taking off, both coolant and oil. You can take off with any rpm setting as long as it accelerates to take off speeds160-170 kph. What you're saying will probably avoid the current bug, but that's not how it should work though. Dora is borked right now.

 

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[amazingme]

 

You are right, I have just checked the manual; the engine warming instructions are bit different to what I have read in Chuck´s guide. Weird. I give a try tonight.

Check Wags videos on how to start up, taxi, take off and land.. on youtube. You'll notice how it is warmed up and at what rpm settings he's taking off.

 

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[grafspee]

FALSE! Dora must be warmed up well before taking off, both coolant and oil. You can take off with any rpm setting as long as it accelerates to take off speeds160-170 kph. What you're saying will probably avoid the current bug, but that's not how it should work though. Dora is borked right now.

 

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Before take off yes but not before taxing :)

I have never experienced engine fail flying this way, so this is enough for me.

When you warm up to 100C before taxing it is very easy to over shoot temp, this i why i keep temp at about 80C manually.

[River]

Is this still an issue for anyone?

 

Nothing has changed for me NineLine. The Dora keeps blowing when flown at say 2700 RPM.

Sure we could just go 2900/3000 minimum to work arround that bug but that is not correct aircraft modeling. Dora should engine should of course work at recomended cruise RPMs.

Please give the lady more love, take a close look at the engine damage model, change the gun safety behaviour to like on the 109 and A8 and lots of people say the Dora lost speed, climb performance a few updates ago.

Give the lady some love, she is a massive part within DCS WW2. Thanks Nine!

 

[River]

The cowl flaps control wheel under the avionics panel also desperately needs some different bindings. Make an axis for people with an axis center knob / wheel. Then we would know when the cowl flap wheel is back to center i. e. auto.

We still don't have a horizon uncage axis like in the 109.

Thought I add these here... Thanks.

[amazingme]

The cowl flaps control wheel under the avionics panel also desperately needs some different bindings. Make an axis for people with an axis center knob / wheel. Then we would know when the cowl flap wheel is back to center i. e. auto.

We still don't have a horizon uncage axis like in the 109.

Thought I add these here... Thanks.

Another issue is when the engine loses power and quits during take off if rpms are bellow 3000. Engine is correctly warmed up though, no rapid throttle movements, and yet it quits. :(

 

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[grafspee]

Another issue is when the engine loses power and quits during take off if rpms are bellow 3000. Engine is correctly warmed up though, no rapid throttle movements, and yet it quits. :(

 

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I just took of at 2700rpm with no problem.

Is this issue happen in Sp mission or any particular MP server ??

Tooks off at 2700rpm now im cruising at 2300 for good 10 min

My gues goes that reason is probably somewhere else, like pre patch plane spawn/settings.

I tested Dora on aerobatic server, no problem taking off at 2700rpm or even 2600rpm, then 10-15 min cruise with those rpm,

[saburo_cz]

The last i had it,

map Normandy, weather +15°C, 760 mmHg

Take off from RWY, 3250 RPM without MW than reduced power to 2700 RPM and after 20 minutes with the same engine setting engine died (no throttle move).

 

 

Few days before,

map Caucacus, take off from ramp (cold) weather as above, take off 3250 without MW, reduced power to 3000 and engine died after 40 minutes with the same reason.

 

 

During both flights i flew fast and tried measure speed every 1000m altitude, so no hard manoeuvring or something like it.

Both are from the last DCS build.

[grafspee]

Very interesting, faulty ignition inducing engine jam at the same second.

Same as me 3250rpm take off then 2700rpm in cruise

ended with sudden engine jam, absolutely no indication of something going wrong with engine no speed loss or anything.

[iFoxRomeo]

And why didn't you both save the track?

[saburo_cz]

Track with failure is in the link ..

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by saburo_cz

[iFoxRomeo]

Track with failure is in the link ..

 

 

I don't know how deep the fuelsystem simulations is. But could you do the test once again, but keep CB E85 on the fuel panel off? Unless you have a droptank attached, and only as long as there is fuel in the drop tank.

 

I'm not at my gaming pc right now, so I can't run your trk. Will do that at the weekend.

 

Fox

[saburo_cz]

I am afraid that EB85 position ON or OFF does not effect on this ignored bug.

I did two attempts today, 1st i gave up after 45 minutes flight - no problem, and in 2nd engine died after 28 minutes. For the same reason like above...

 

EDIT: one note - It does not matter if take off is "from runway" or cold "from ramp".

Edited November 17, 2020 by saburo_cz

[iFoxRomeo]

The point is, that the flight manual says to keep this CB off, unless you use a drop tank. I never experienced this sudden engine death in the dora, never. And I bought it the day it was available. Last weekend I made two testflights (time accellerated) that lasted 1.5h each. One with 2400 and the other with 2200rpm. Nothing happened. A few weeks ago I also did a online testflight on SoW with the dora a high power setting. Also, nothing happend.

 

 

You seem to have this problem very often. Just fly with the mentioned CB off, just to rule it out as possible source.

[Art-J]

^ That is an interesting observation. However, IF the mentioned CB is indeed the culprit, then the issue must be looked at even more, because there's no way ignition timing should have anything to do with fuel pump failure. In piston powered planes magnetos are used and ignition systems are separated from the other systems as much as possible for a reason.