Please explain this landing

[Dav IRL]

Hi,

 

I landed on the carrier yesterday and the guy was telling me I was on course pretty much and I felt like it was a good landing, but, can someone explain based off the photo I have uploaded if I got a good score or a bad score or what it means please?

[Foka]

Usually reading a manual helps.

Pages 54 and 55

 

 

 

 

WO means Wave Off, so you shouldn't land at all. Grounded.

[Foka]

WO - Wave Off

_DRX_ - Heavy drift right at the start

WONSUX - Wave Off Not set up at the start

_DRIM_ - Heavy drift right in the middle

[KittyVCAW-1]

I got a WOFDIC, wave off, fast, ???, in close. Any guess what the D means?

[ex81]

I got a WOFDIC, wave off, fast, ???, in close. Any guess what the D means?

 

WO wave off

F fast

D drifted

IC in close

 

usually D comes with a R or L for right or left.

[randomTOTEN]

FD is Fouled deck, so WOFDIC=Wave Off, Fouled Deck In Close?

[KittyVCAW-1]

it must have been fouled deck because there was no L or D. I actually got 2 grades on this landing, the first was C #3Wire EGIW and the 2nd was the WOFDIC so the fouled deck notation makes sense. DCS AI strikes again. The EGIW note was BS IMO, thanks paddles. I pulled throttles to idle coming over the wires so I would settle down and I guess didn't go back to full power fast enough.

[Stearmandriver]

On 11/29/2020 at 11:29 AM, Jonnie2Bad said:

. I pulled throttles to idle coming over the wires so I would settle down

 

My understanding is that's literally the definition of Eased Gun - pulling off a big handful of power to try to settle into the wires and avoid a bolter.  I often get the EGIW comment when I haven't reduced power at all... but sounds like it was applied correctly (for once) here ;).

[Foka]

On 11/29/2020 at 10:29 PM, Jonnie2Bad said:

The EGIW note was BS IMO, thanks paddles. I pulled throttles to idle coming over the wires so I would settle down and I guess didn't go back to full power fast enough.

 

As Stearmandriver said - it was exactly EG. You should fly that way, you don't need to idle to catch the wires, and moment you touch the deck go mil power. If you needed to pull throttle to idle to catch the wire it wasn't a good approach.

[KittyVCAW-1]

Noted, will try to avoid in the future. I thought it meant you pulled the throttle off after you hit the deck not while still in the air.

[patpatpowercat]

An EG call is pretty much an automatic cut pass or no grade at best. If you cut throttle over the wires to trap (EG) and miss the wires, you will not be able to spool the engine up to max in time on the bolter, and can end up in the drink. Remember throttle response time from when you put throttle to max burner vs when the engine actually gets there. 

[Wildwind]

So, yesterday I had a couple of puzzling LSO grades (both in single-player practice missions).

 

1). I got a "3PTS" in a Hornet when Tacview shows I touched the deck at 7.9 degrees AoA (i.e. just 0.2 degrees below on-speed).  How's that possible?

 

2). I got waved off (again in a Hornet) for no apparent reason.  I was on-speed, ball was centered, lineup was centered.  LSO Grade was WO WO[AFU]IC, but I was pretty much dead-on, possibly the best approach I've ever flown.  Furthermore, the Wave-Off came when I was about 10 feet off the deck, so it was far too late to avoid trapping (and I caught the 3-wire, no less).  This was one of two wave-offs I got where I called the ball, heard "Roger ball", and then nothing until suddenly "wave-off, wave-off" really late in the approach for less-than-obvious reasons, but the other one was at least soon enough to avoid trapping (and I think my descent rate was a bit high (not so high as to get a TMRDIC, though) on that one, but that definitely wasn't the case on this one))

 

I've had a number of times where the LSO responses really puzzled me, but most of those have been in the Tomcat and I have heard that sometimes the LSO does not handle the Tomcat correctly, so I didn't think much of it.  That, and I'm just not very good at carrier landings yet, so I'm generally inclined to assume I screwed up somehow rather than that the game did.  These two were the first really weird examples in the Hornet, though, and in both cases I felt like my approach was pretty good.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Wildwind

[randomTOTEN]

4 hours ago, Wildwind said:

1). I got a "3PTS" in a Hornet when Tacview shows I touched the deck at 7.9 degrees AoA (i.e. just 0.2 degrees below on-speed).  How's that possible?

AOA is a difficult concept to understand for many. It is the angular difference between the chord line of the wing and the relative wind (presumably at that location).

It fundamentally isn't related to the position of the nose (and thus the nose landing gear).

You can have an AoA of 7.9° with the nose pointed 90° straight up. You can have an 7.9° AoA with the nose pointing 90° straight down. It doesn't matter.

 

If your descent angle at the moment of impact with the deck is 7.9° and your AoA in that same moment is 7.9° then the attitude of the wing chord relative to the horizon is 0.0°.

Edited December 2, 2020 by randomTOTEN

[Wildwind]

4 hours ago, randomTOTEN said:

AOA is a difficult concept to understand for many. It is the angular difference between the chord line of the wing and the relative wind (presumably at that location).

It fundamentally isn't related to the position of the nose (and thus the nose landing gear).

You can have an AoA of 7.9° with the nose pointed 90° straight up. You can have an 7.9° AoA with the nose pointing 90° straight down. It doesn't matter.

 

If your descent angle at the moment of impact with the deck is 7.9° and your AoA in that same moment is 7.9° then the attitude of the wing chord relative to the horizon is 0.0°.

I know how AoA works.  I majored in aerospace engineering for a couple of semesters in college before I realized there were no jobs in that field at the time and so switched to Computer Science.

 

My descent angle was obviously not 7.9 degrees or I would have had a lot bigger problems than my LSO grade!  My descent rate (again, per Tacview) there was a little high (-870, when one would like it to be -750 or less) but my descent angle was nowhere close to -7.9 degrees.

 

Also, in TacView I was visibly angled up from the deck at touchdown.  I tried watching the track to confirm that, but as seems to be the case more often than not, the track did not play back correctly.

Edited December 3, 2020 by Wildwind

[Stearmandriver]

Wildwind, don't feel too bad... the LSO grading - at least for the Hornet - has been kinda borked since release.  Almost every pass in a Hornet will yeild some flavor of EGIW, 3pts, or LNF, even on a solidly trimmed-up approach that ticks all the parameters and with no power reduction.  About the only way to avoid it is to start a steady power increase towards Mil a second or two before touchdown.  

 

This used to annoy me more because if you had a centered ball at the ramp, you didn't want to add power until touchdown.  Lately though I seem to get a pretty good sink somewhere between IC and AR, and need the power addition to stay on the ball, so my grades have improved lol.  I've been wondering if these sinks have been coincidence or if we're starting to see the burble modeled.  Works for me either way ;).

 

I will say, if you enjoy having your passes graded (accurately), you want Bankler's Case 1 Recovery Trainer mission.  Far, FAR better analysis of your pass than what the Supercarrier LSO provides.  (I've had Bankler's score a pass perfectly - 75 / 75 - and the Supercarrier LSO give me a no grade EGIW lol).

 

When I do CQ stuff, I fly the Bankler's mission (modified to add natural wind and deck objects), and disable the LSO included in the mission via the F10 options.  The boat LSO seems to actually work well... he just grades poorly. 

 

Here's a video of Bankler's pass grading if you're interested: 

https://m.twitch.tv/videos/818427432

Edited December 3, 2020 by Stearmandriver

[Wildwind]

3 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

Wildwind, don't feel too bad... the LSO grading - at least for the Hornet - has been kinda borked since release.  Almost every pass in a Hornet will yeild some flavor of EGIW, 3pts, or LNF, even on a solidly trimmed-up approach that ticks all the parameters and with no power reduction.  About the only way to avoid it is to start a steady power increase towards Mil a second or two before touchdown.  

 

This used to annoy me more because if you had a centered ball at the ramp, you didn't want to add power until touchdown.  Lately though I seem to get a pretty good sink somewhere between IC and AR, and need the power addition to stay on the ball, so my grades have improved lol.  I've been wondering if these sinks have been coincidence or if we're starting to see the burble modeled.  Works for me either way ;).

 

I will say, if you enjoy having your passes graded (accurately), you want Bankler's Case 1 Recovery Trainer mission.  Far, FAR better analysis of your pass than what the Supercarrier LSO provides.  (I've had Bankler's score a pass perfectly - 75 / 75 - and the Supercarrier LSO give me a no grade EGIW lol).

 

When I do CQ stuff, I fly the Bankler's mission (modified to add natural wind and deck objects), and disable the LSO included in the mission via the F10 options.  The boat LSO seems to actually work well... he just grades poorly. 

 

Here's a video of Bankler's pass grading if you're interested: 

https://m.twitch.tv/videos/818427432

Thanks, I'll check that out.

[KittyVCAW-1]

LULX .....X = center????

 

[Foka]

Above you have all description posted posted.
X is at the start.

[Irishlad200000]

Don't be ashamed of not getting this right lol! I'm a real life light aircraft owner and Pilot and I have issues with the deck landing! In real life I land in all sorts of STOL environments. All I can say is fly the plane until the brakes are on and engine is off. Use power to control your descent rate, as any irratic elevator or aileron input will put you off course in the final seconds of final. Remember to cage you velocity vector so that you get a good idea of your descent angle. Remember to throttle full power after touchdown to enable you to do a bolter if the landing is botched. This sim has more feel than any other sim available including MSFS 2020. Its the only one that gives me a challenge!

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

[Foka]

During holidays I had some time for training, made well over 20 landings and so far my best grade is:

(OK) Wire #3 [BC]

 

When should I call "Ball"? I do it when IFLOLS pop up, but probably it's to early call?

[Tholozor]

Generally you'd call the ball at the ¾-mile or rolled out in the groove (as long as the ball is in sight, otherwise 'Clara').

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Tholozor

[Uxi]

3/4 mile,  wings level,  on glide path and you have the ball in sight.