Goodbye to this god awful, toxic community

[Wrightie]

I have decided to say goodbye to the DCS community and DCS as a whole.

I have been playing DCS for 2 years now and have enjoyed being able to fly the various modules, Tomcat, F18, Huey, Gazelle, F16 to name a few but unfortunately some elitist members of this “community” make it not a nice, actually extremely toxic place to be.

 

I have seen it time and time again whenever anyone voices a legitimate grievance (Usually comes down to a complete lack of communication) there are a selection of White Knights and apologists who will take it upon themselves to ridicule, belittle and attack this customer for even daring to voice their grievance.

 

We saw it with the debacle that was the Supercarriers launch back in April. People were understandably aggrieved that not only was the module that they’d paid for delayed (This is understandable in software development I know) ED left it until a few hours before launch to communicate that. Even when customers were asking outright about a delay the day before, members of the ED team were evasive and told their customers “Don’t overthink it, it’s not as bad as you might think”. Once it was delayed any customer who dare put their head above the parapet was rounded on by a vocal few members. I read over and over “I’m glad I’ve brought popcorn” or replies from these, frankly Assholes aggressively defending ED and saying it’s an early access module and to get over it. As paying customers these people are well within their rights to complain at ED but no they were bashed by ED apologists for even daring to be miffed by the contemptuous communication shown.

 

Again last week we saw the same when one of Heatblur’s customers voiced his opinion that he was miffed because HB waited until the day of the patch to actually announce that the F14A won’t be included and will be released on the 18^th instead. As pointed out by Mike, Heatblur never announced that the -A was part of the patch but they were well aware that they’d stated it would be in the October patch which lead people to think it was going to come in the November one as there was no patch in October.

 

HB knew that people were expecting the launch on that day but again chose to wait until the 11^th hour to actually communicate that it wouldn’t be releasing to their customers. This customer mentioned that he’d taken the following day off work as he was excited to fly the A. (Everyone takes time off work to enjoy their hobbies even all you white knights) again this customer was attacked, ridiculed and belittled for daring to point out that HB should’ve communicated the A wasn’t going to be included in the Patch earlier as they knew people had expectations as it had been a buzz in the forums for several weeks.

 

To all you apologists out there. These people are customers of Eagle Dynamics, Heatblur or any other DCS developer. They have invested their money into DCS. Who are you to tell these customers that they can’t voice their opinion, as paying customers this is their right, Early Access is not an excuse for a lack of transparency or abysmal communication and you DCS apologists would all do well to remember that.

 

Eagle Dynamics you have a good product, a product that I have spent well over £1000 on not to mention the peripherals I’ve purchased to play it but I will not be supporting you any longer people always say “Vote with your wallet” so that is what I’m doing by not purchasing any new modules for your sim. It is 100% solely due to this awful, toxic, elitist community,

 

who knows how many customers you’ve lost because of it.

Hopefully you will start to clamp down on this behaviour and maybe learn yourselves to communicate better or at least learn to manage customer expectations but even if you don’t, I will no longer be around to witness it.

 

[BuzzU]

Yes, forums can be annoying but that's the way it is. I've only found a couple that aren't that way.

 

Why don't you just fly DCS and avoid posting on the forum?

[ricktoberfest]

I have decided to say goodbye to the DCS community and DCS as a whole.

I have been playing DCS for 2 years now and have enjoyed being able to fly the various modules, Tomcat, F18, Huey, Gazelle, F16 to name a few but unfortunately some elitist members of this “community” make it not a nice, actually extremely toxic place to be.

 

I have seen it time and time again whenever anyone voices a legitimate grievance (Usually comes down to a complete lack of communication) there are a selection of White Knights and apologists who will take it upon themselves to ridicule, belittle and attack this customer for even daring to voice their grievance.

 

We saw it with the debacle that was the Supercarriers launch back in April. People were understandably aggrieved that not only was the module that they’d paid for delayed (This is understandable in software development I know) ED left it until a few hours before launch to communicate that. Even when customers were asking outright about a delay the day before, members of the ED team were evasive and told their customers “Don’t overthink it, it’s not as bad as you might think”. Once it was delayed any customer who dare put their head above the parapet was rounded on by a vocal few members. I read over and over “I’m glad I’ve brought popcorn” or replies from these, frankly Assholes aggressively defending ED and saying it’s an early access module and to get over it. As paying customers these people are well within their rights to complain at ED but no they were bashed by ED apologists for even daring to be miffed by the contemptuous communication shown.

 

Again last week we saw the same when one of Heatblur’s customers voiced his opinion that he was miffed because HB waited until the day of the patch to actually announce that the F14A won’t be included and will be released on the 18^th instead. As pointed out by Mike, Heatblur never announced that the -A was part of the patch but they were well aware that they’d stated it would be in the October patch which lead people to think it was going to come in the November one as there was no patch in October.

 

HB knew that people were expecting the launch on that day but again chose to wait until the 11^th hour to actually communicate that it wouldn’t be releasing to their customers. This customer mentioned that he’d taken the following day off work as he was excited to fly the A. (Everyone takes time off work to enjoy their hobbies even all you white knights) again this customer was attacked, ridiculed and belittled for daring to point out that HB should’ve communicated the A wasn’t going to be included in the Patch earlier as they knew people had expectations as it had been a buzz in the forums for several weeks.

 

To all you apologists out there. These people are customers of Eagle Dynamics, Heatblur or any other DCS developer. They have invested their money into DCS. Who are you to tell these customers that they can’t voice their opinion, as paying customers this is their right, Early Access is not an excuse for a lack of transparency or abysmal communication and you DCS apologists would all do well to remember that.

 

Eagle Dynamics you have a good product, a product that I have spent well over £1000 on not to mention the peripherals I’ve purchased to play it but I will not be supporting you any longer people always say “Vote with your wallet” so that is what I’m doing by not purchasing any new modules for your sim. It is 100% solely due to this awful, toxic, elitist community,

 

who knows how many customers you’ve lost because of it.

Hopefully you will start to clamp down on this behaviour and maybe learn yourselves to communicate better or at least learn to manage customer expectations but even if you don’t, I will no longer be around to witness it.

 

So you’re making a toxic post about people being toxic?

 

I don’t generally defend or attack ED. Quite frankly as the best/only modern combat flight sim I’m just happy to be able to fly around and shoot things.

 

Maybe you should play the game but stop trying to play the forums? If you have a problem you could always talk to support instead of a forum of people who are also playing the game. Also means your not getting on the hype train and then getting angry when whatever you’re waiting for doesn’t show up in the way you want it.

 

You have to look at a game/sim like this long term. If you want a game like the others that comes out new every year then maybe this isn’t the place for you to be happy.

 

Overall I’ve been very pleased with the way this hobby has gone over the last 10 years or so and look forward to many more changes, but I’m not so arrogant as to think my particular complaints are going to change the course of either ED or one of their 3rd party devs.

 

Either be happy with what you’ve got or move on. It’s really the only choice most of us have unless we have some particular importance to the companies involved.

[BuzzU]

 

So you’re making a toxic post about people being toxic?

 

I don’t generally defend or attack ED. Quite frankly as the best/only modern combat flight sim I’m just happy to be able to fly around and shoot things.

 

Maybe you should play the game but stop trying to play the forums? If you have a problem you could always talk to support instead of a forum of people who are also playing the game. Also means your not getting on the hype train and then getting angry when whatever you’re waiting for doesn’t show up in the way you want it.

 

You have to look at a game/sim like this long term. If you want a game like the others that comes out new every year then maybe this isn’t the place for you to be happy.

 

Overall I’ve been very pleased with the way this hobby has gone over the last 10 years or so and look forward to many more changes, but I’m not so arrogant as to think my particular complaints are going to change the course of either ED or one of their 3rd party devs.

 

Either be happy with what you’ve got or move on. It’s really the only choice most of us have unless we have some particular importance to the companies involved.

 

I'm sure he's glad you made your post to show what he's talking about.

[Sideburns]

 

So you’re making a toxic post about people being toxic?

 

 

Not entirely sure what was toxic about his post, makes some good points that are increasingly being made. "Be happy or move on" is arguably more toxic.

[ricktoberfest]

 

I'm sure he's glad you made your post to show what he's talking about.

 

That’s just ridiculous. If pointing out something obvious makes people offended well then they should avoid the internet

 

I’m simply pointing out the anything “toxic” would be completely unknown if he just avoided the forums. It’s like looking at YouTube comments and then complaining about them.

 

Why make a post saying goodbye toxic community. Play, or don’t play. Thinking that a bunch of strangers care why you leave is just arrogant or trying to create more toxicity.

[ricktoberfest]

 

Not entirely sure what was toxic about his post, makes some good points that are increasingly being made. "Be happy or move on" is arguably more toxic.

 

Why would you continue doing this if it didn’t make you happy?

 

It’s the fact that people feel the need to post some rant about why they’re unhappy that triggers me

[BuzzU]

...........

[ricktoberfest]

 

Did you quote me when you should have quoted him? I'm on your side.

 

 

No idea. Now I’m just raving about how bad this forum can be. It’s a slow day at work.

[Mr. Big.Biggs]

Humanity has become toxic. Social media has given everyone big balls and as such, civility is gone forever.

sucks but true

[BuzzU]

 

No idea. Now I’m just raving about how bad this forum can be. It’s a slow day at work.

 

Ok, this got confusing. I thought it was the OP making your post. I mixed up the names. Actually, i'm not on your side but his. He could have just left without the rant but i'm sure it made him feel good. Your post was toxic and it's not your place to tell him to go. That will always be his choice and doesn't need to be told what he should do.

 

[ricktoberfest]

 

Ok, this got confusing. I thought it was the OP making your post. I mixed up the names. Actually, i'm not on your side but his. He could have just left without the rant but i'm sure it made him feel good. Your post was toxic and it's not your place to tell him to go. That will always be his choice and doesn't need to be told what to do.

 

 

Again.. how is that toxic? Seriously. The idea that nobody cares when someone posts an “I’m leaving” rant is toxic?

 

But ranting about how the thing you want hasn’t happened in the way you want it isn’t toxic?

 

If that’s toxic then it’s no wonder that he’s fed up with this place. This is supposed to be a place to ask questions and have fun. I just gave some advice on how to either enjoy his game, or not. His choice.

[kotor633]

There is a saying: don't stop travelers. Adios and goodbye.

[ricktoberfest]

I’m going to agree that there is some truly toxic behavior here, but to me the toxic is people constantly complaining or badgering everybody else to try and make them unhappy. Why does everybody think we all have to be unhappy because they are?

 

 

Most of us are perfectly happy with our game and eagerly await fixes at the times when it breaks.

 

Usually if one module breaks, I’ll just fly another. Or take a break for a week or 2 until it’s fixed

[QuiGon]

...

Huh, now that's funny. A guy who throws blame around at every event (carrier release, etc...) is now blaming the community for being toxic. Quite ironic.

 

 

[BuzzU]

Look at it this way. Read your post and imagine someone sent it to you. How would you feel? I only know I wouldn't like it.

[notproplayer3]

you are of course free to voice your opinion, but did the delays or the toxic really affect you to the point where the game itself doesn't appeal to you anymore. I get that the forums may very well be a place you really don't like, but do you think it is going to be enough to stop you from playing a sim you've invested £1000 and probably a lot of hours into ? You know, I've had two times when I thought I would stop playing DCS forever, the first time was when I got into X-Plane 11, surely enough I got back to DCS, the second time was when MSFS came out and I very seriously said to myself: that's it, I'll never touch DCS again, might very well uninstall it. Funnily enough, a month after and I was already back to DCS.

I've got the feeling that no matter how toxic the forums or ED's attitude might be, you'll be back on day.

 

 

[norbot]

Yes, forums can be annoying but that's the way it is. I've only found a couple that aren't that way.

 

Why don't you just fly DCS and avoid posting on the forum?

 

That's exactly what I wanted to ask Wrightie. You don't have to post here in order to fly in DCS-World.

 

 

[probad]

"Be happy or move on" is arguably more toxic.

explain the logic of this to me

[BuzzU]

 

That's exactly what I wanted to ask Wrightie. You don't have to post here in order to fly in DCS-World.

 

 

I've done that a few times myself.

[Dunx]

Oh the irony in here is majestic ;)

[BuzzU]

Yes, there is some iron in planes.

[Northstar98]

While I understand the concerns, and they are certainly valid and one of the major downsides of DCS. I think a more effective way of dealing with this issue is managing expectations. Over the years of playing DCS and waiting around for updates, is that if something is said that it's coming at whatever date, actually expect it a month later. This might sound like I have some stockholm syndrome, but given DCS' history and the nature of the beast, I simply feel that this is the best way of going about it.

 

I can empathise with taking the day off to enjoy a hotly anticipated module only for it not to come, I absolutely get that, and it absolutely sucks from the feeling of wasting the day to maybe even betrayal that you didn't get what you were expecting. While this wouldn't be a problem is communication was more present and there was more transparency, I don't think it's something that can be relied upon, as such I think that the solution to the problem is to wait for it to actually release and only then take a take off. Obviously it's too late to say that now, but in future I'd highly recommend it - I think it's better to try and avoid setting yourself up for disappointment. Of course I'm not trying to cast blame on whoever it was who was disappointed, but here counting on something releasing when its stated to is not something that's particularly reliable and delays are the norm not the exception. So it's better to take whatever release date, add a generous amount of time after it (a month is a safe bet) and go by that.

 

I have plenty of personal gripes about DCS (even if most can be attributed to nitpicks), but if it wasn't for its upsides (which are plenty, and when developers do get it right, boy do they get it right) I simply wouldn't be here.

 

 

And yes, this is coming from probably one of the youngest active members on the forum (been with DCS for 5 and a half years, starting when I was 16).

[probad]

cobra should legit be put on the spot for being absolutely terrible at guesstimating dates but if you wanted to live up to some virtuous ethos of being equitable and tolerant yall ought to just accept his ineptitude like maybe hes just bad with calendars cant help it you know lmao

just multiply all his eta's by a whole magnitude:

 

1 day = 1 month

1 month = 1 year

1 year = 1 decade

 

if youve been around you know this is spot on so theres my wisdom for you new guys

[BuzzU]

Didn't have to read further than the headline to decide you won't be missed. So i stopped right there. Goodbye.

 

I'm not the type to put someone on ignore. You just changed my mind.