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[NO BUG] TOO modes overwriting targets between stations for GBU-38


uri

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Might also affect JSOWs, haven't tested.

 

The track below is on Syria, apologies for that but it was the only mission I had on hand.

 

Here's a brief description of the track:

  1. Setup JDAMs
  2. Select waypoint 1 and designate to get TGP in the right spot
  3. Create 4 mark points using the TGP on different targets
  4. Undesignate
  5. Select MK1 and designate, repeat to MK4 (this is just to check that I've created the mark points correctly)
  6. Begin setting up targets for JDAMs
  7. Select a station TOO1
  8. Designate
  9. Undesignate
  10. Select TOO2
  11. Increment to MK2
  12. Designate
  13. Undesignate
  14. Change stations
  15. Increment to MK3
  16. Designate
  17. Undesignate
  18. Select TOO2
  19. Increment to MK4
  20. Designate
  21. Undesignate
  22. I then cycle between the two stations and the TOOs just to show that they all have different coordinates (I remembered hearing that TOO were global at some point)
  23. Release
  24. 2/4 targets hit, 2 bombs doubled up

f18-broken-too-with-confirm.trk

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Did you cycle between TOO1 and TOO2 when releasing? You need to do this on both stations.

 

I recommend that you drop the bombs one by one and check which TOO is used just before releasing and changing it as needed. And if that works well, then you can take shortcuts.

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Did you cycle between TOO1 and TOO2 when releasing? You need to do this on both stations.

 

I recommend that you drop the bombs one by one and check which TOO is used just before releasing and changing it as needed. And if that works well, then you can take shortcuts.

 

Oh I did not cycle the TOO manually, my mistake.

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Yeah, designating waypoint as target is a target designation the same as TGP or radar. Any target designation will immediately and continuously overwrite TOO JDAM.

 

You don't have to undesignate so much. If you have weapons 1 2 3 4 and locations A B C D then you designate A, pick 1 and immediately 1 is has A written as it's target. You advance to 2 which immediately has A written as its target which is OK you just set B as designated target and it overwrites. Repeat until weapon 4 is set. The one thing you have to be careful of is undesignating before cycling back to weapon 1 or you'll immediately overwrite it if a designation is active. It's then possible to QTY4 release with one button push all four weapons on four targets. That only works if those weapons have their own stations so they can all share the same mission (that's what TOO1 is, a "mission").

 

If you are sharing weapons on stations then it's slightly more indirect. You setup weapons 1 and 2 as TOO1 for each station for locations A and B respectively. Then making sure to undesignate, set those two stations TOO2 to locations C and D. When it comes time to release, making sure there is no active designation you can QTY2 release TOO1 and then TOO2. In this case TOO1 is one mission of two bombs and TOO2 is a second mission of two bombs. Two missions requires two button presses minimum.

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What I don't get is how we're supposed to get the TGP back on the target area after undesignating, without screwing up the JDAM coords.

 

I also don't get why this is so unnecessarily clunky. If coords were handed over to JDAM if and only if TDC depress, all of these problems would be nonexistent. It's like we're trying to work around some kind of software/avionics bug, either in the sim or in the real jet, to get multiple drops to work correctly.

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What I don't get is how we're supposed to get the TGP back on the target area after undesignating, without screwing up the JDAM coords.

 

I also don't get why this is so unnecessarily clunky. If coords were handed over to JDAM if and only if TDC depress, all of these problems would be nonexistent. It's like we're trying to work around some kind of software/avionics bug, either in the sim or in the real jet, to get multiple drops to work correctly.

 

on point mate! :thumbup:

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What I don't get is how we're supposed to get the TGP back on the target area after undesignating, without screwing up the JDAM coords.

 

I also don't get why this is so unnecessarily clunky. If coords were handed over to JDAM if and only if TDC depress, all of these problems would be nonexistent. It's like we're trying to work around some kind of software/avionics bug, either in the sim or in the real jet, to get multiple drops to work correctly.

 

Overwriting should only occur on coordinate changes like new waypoint designations or slewing FLIR or radar. Constant waypoint designations should not overwrite TOO coordinates when cycling weapons.

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Yeah, I get it. It's a small detail but it does make a difference. I had to read really carefully to see that it doesn't in that particular case. In practically all other cases it does overwrite immediately. As much as it should be changed it's not such a big deal for me. Once all the JDAMs have their coordinates there's no real reason to point the FLIR anywhere. I have my targets and can release them blind. Even if this was fixed you'd still be pretty limited in what you could do slaving FLIR without disturbing the weapons. Either you'd have to slave FLIR to only the current weapon target or completely deselect all JDAM before slaving FLIR and then reselect JDAM.

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Has his issue been solved, or is there still a bug that needs to be reported? Thanks.

 

Pretty sure it was an issue with the procedure being done to transfer coordinates - works fine for others and myself. It can be a bit of a confusing process at times with task saturation.

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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Don't you need to slave the TPOD to the target area to get the correct drop cues, or are the drop cues calculated directly from the JDAM coords?

 

No, you do not need to slave the TGP to get the drop cues. The drop cues will be displayed via the coordinate entries for the individual GPS guided weapons. Also, it can be beneficial to have the HSI displayed, to show the parameters of the LAR for each weapon.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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Overwriting should only occur on coordinate changes like new waypoint designations or slewing FLIR or radar. Constant waypoint designations should not overwrite TOO coordinates when cycling weapons.

 

It's that constant designation that makes TGP+TOO usage such a huge faff in the Hornet, almost to the point where I'd be shocked if it actually worked that way in the real thing due to how ridiculously it overcomplicates something that should (and could) be trivial. And it's over-complicated with no benefits to it. How on earth did that ever pass inspection?!

 

If it only designated targets when you… you know… designated targets rather than constantly as you slewed the sensor around, 90% of the issues (and general confusion) with how the TGP and TOO mode interacted would be gone, and mass-dropping even in TOO mode would be made quick and easy.

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This is why I voted for the mission card and MUMI in the Roadmap list as the highest priority, so we can say goodbye to TOO mode and screwing around with coordinates. Because IRL they don't try and drop 4 JDAMS in TOO mode on a single pass with nothing but lpod designations and markpoints. lol They plan out the attack, slap in the cartridge and not worry about it.

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Yeah, just in general, a proper DCS-wide pre-planning and DTC interface that worked for all aircraft that had those kinds of systems (and they're quite a few at this point) would be such a massive QoL improvement to the game as a whole. Tons of usability issues and needless complexities in a dozen modules would just be gone, overnight.

 

But it's never going to happen… :cry:

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❧ ❧ Inside you are two wolves. One cannot land; the other shoots friendlies. You are a Goon. ❧ ❧

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