Patch Nov 18th - F-14A release - Feedback Thread

[fat creason]

My biggest issue with A right now is acceleration past M1, it struggles to get past transsonic region in all altitudes for me. With 2*XT(empty), 2*9Ls, and 2*7F(station 4,5) with full internal fuel down to 8k lbs I could not get past M1.05 in a slight climb at 20k ft climbing slightly to 25k ft.

Around M1 it just hits invisible wall (too much transsonic drag?). I cant belive TF-30s are that shitty, their subsonic acceleration is OK for me.

In comparison B accelerates trough M1 like bat out of hell, in slight climb from 20k ft to 25+k ft i was able to go from M0.9 to M1.6 easily (same loadout as in A).

 

This is being investigated, a fix should be in the next patch/hotfix. Trying to solve some issues resulted in breaking other good parts.

[Alborz 1-1]

 

Can you give me a bit more, paramters, etc? What exactly happened... Still a bit in the dark about what your issue is.

 

In general, nothing changed with the flaps, they are exactly as they were. Maybe it is just an impression that they break easier? The A has a different feel to it afterall, and overG-ing is easier in it.

regarding to kila66's report; landing flaps seem to be less resilient to G forces after the patch and getting jammed much easier. this is something that me and a lot of my friends have experienced.

 

 

[fat creason]

regarding to kila66's report; landing flaps seem to be less resilient to G forces after the patch and getting jammed much easier. this is something that me and a lot of my friends have experienced.

 

 

This was the original intention of the first flap jamming implementation, it just didn't work as intended the first time. The flaps are very sensitive to G and airspeed according to our SME.

[IronMike]

my quick notices in the limited time Ive spent:

 

Compressor Stalls: dont seem to warn you or happen much at all for that matter. as far as I know you should be able to hear or feel compressor stalls coming with aircraft behavior. ive heard of groans and pops before the stall actually occurs. no matter how tight of a turn I pulled or how much I surged the throttle nothing seemed to happen until I forced a flat spin and only when I tried to exit the spin by sweeping the wings did the engine burst into flames without warning leading to the next thing.

 

Fire Suppression: short answer doesnt work. pull the cutoff, press discharge and fire is unaffected.

 

Glove Vanes? I know it was never confirmed we would get them functioning or just visual or whatever else... but they should still be present on the A models even if welded shut shouldnt they? looks like the B glove was reused and they either havnt been modelled yet or this is the subtle confirmation theyre being left out entirely to save on workload. or its possible the late model A this is based on doesnt have tthem at all but Im not sure on when exactly they were left out of production.

 

Sounds: the exterior sounds are a good step in the right direction for what the 14 seems to sound like, except in the cockpit view. seems to be nearly identical to the B sounds I am used to and even with the canopy open you cant hear the screech at all seems like.

 

I only had a couple hours to check it out but those were the things that stood out to me at the time. loving that its finally out though!

 

Thank you!

 

As for compressor stalls: that sounds completely correct. Unlike in the public myth of the TF30s being unreliable engines, in reality they were in fact very reliable, and all of our SMEs agree that getting a stall was extremely rare, at lower altitudes nearly impossible. During development we had to tone them back due to SME input. It went a lot like this: "This shouldnt result in a stall, this shouldnt either, and that neither..." High AOA, cross inputs (or disrupted airflow from the side), and high altitudes are the best bet where you can experience them. And ofc, easiest to get them is in a flat spin. That said: be careful what you wish for. Reckless flying will still bring them up more often than not, especially when you dont think about it and dont need it either... Most of the time you will be quickly able to clear it, by moving the throttle back to MIL or idle respectively. But if you get a hung stall and your TTI rises quickly, you might be in more trouble than you bargained for. All that said, don't expect engine stalls to be a common thing in the A, it's overall stall hours in the entire flight time of the engines is minute, to say the least. It's public misconception that primes ppl for these kind of wrong expectations.

 

We're investigating the fire suppression. Do you have the key mapped?

 

Glove Vanes are exactly modeled welded shut as on the B. However, some late new build As or Bs didnt have them at all. This variety is reflected on a per skin basis. Some have the groove, others are smooth. Earlier As will show them welded shut more likely than late As or Bs, etc...

 

Internal Sound overhaul is still outstanding, not sure what Cobra plans in terms of its extend, we didnt talk about it yet.

 

[Kula66]

In general, nothing changed with the flaps, they are exactly as they were. Maybe it is just an impression that they break easier? The A has a different feel to it afterall, and overG-ing is easier in it.

 

This is in your change log:

• Adjusted flap jamming logic - flap jamming is now more likely to occur.
  

So I am a little puzzled when you say 'they are exactly as they were'.

 

I haven't flown the A, not really interested in a low power 14.

 

Prior to the latest patch, I used flaps in a couple of specific situations, at around 200-250kts with no issues, now from my very limited testing, they jam everytime.

[juvat22]

hello,

i´m new to this.

could somebody please tell me how to upgrade to the f-14a? i don´t get it.

thanks in advance.

 

best regards,

 

juvat

[fat creason]

 

This is in your change log:

• Adjusted flap jamming logic - flap jamming is now more likely to occur.
  

So I am a little puzzled when you say 'they are exactly as they were'.

 

I haven't flown the A, not really interested in a low power 14.

 

Prior to the latest patch, I used flaps in a couple of specific situations, at around 200-250kts with no issues, now from my very limited testing, they jam everytime.

 

It's impossible for the flaps to jam at 200 knots. 250 knots? Very possible. The rated flap speed is 225 knots. Also if you go over 2.5G at any speed, you're entering the flaps danger zone. Moving them while under load is another no-no. Keep is mind this isn't some pure boolean logic either, each time you overspeed the flaps it will be slightly different. Increase your discipline regarding when to use flaps.

Edited November 19, 2020 by fat creason

[UWBuRn]

Well, my impression on the latest patch and the addition of the A variant are mostly positive. It's nice to have the A as i think, with it's engines (and related limitations) impersonates very well the Tomcat reputation after what you can read about of it of who flew with and against it. Moreso, as someone already posted in other topics, it was the most produced Tomcat variant, the one operated for the longest time and can fit well in some scenarios (Cold War).

 

Having both A and B seem great, as ones looking for a more competitive platform (expecially fo PvP) will steer to the B, ones looking for more challanges and more historically related stuff can enjoy the A.

 

Speaking of challenges, i'm enjoying burner cat shots, the differences in engine response during traps and in flight refuelling, and had some fun trapping on a single engine after smoking up the other one on some high alt hard maneuvering. I'm a little surprised about the anemic performance at transonic speeds, as it really seems to struggle getting past M1.05-1.10, but if that's not correct i have no doubt HB has the capability, the documentation and support to address it.

 

About the skins, i'm glad the iconic Sundowners it's in! :D Yes, i was expecting more of them, but it's understandable that they had to be delayed and honestly i don't care much about that - if you're in gurry there are plenty B skins that can be placed on the A.

 

What disappoints me? The turn rate on the B (not the i feel the urge to do some PvP with other aircrafts but it's not clear why it was broken) and the Sparrows not working, as this is a major let down (expecially when we already have some issues with the Phoenix). Being a SW developer for work by myself, i very well understand how this kind of things come along, yet from a consumer point of view it's frustrating, because now it's broken and as te 'Cat it's not and ED module you don't know if it will be hot fixed the next week or if we have to wait a month (and i cannot forget the stuck cat issue the went on for several months, no matter if it was on ED side or not).

 

What do i expect from the future? That now that we enjoy the A and as soon as the thins went off with the last patch are fixed, the focus can slip for a while on polishing up Jester, AWG-9 and related quirks, making the Tomcat shine in the A2A role that was it's raison d'être. As thoose are nailed, the next big one would be the making Jester operating the LANTIRN. Thoose would allow anybody fly without a human RIO (because of SP, bacause they don't want, because they can't) to enjoy the 'Cat completely.

 

So that's my two cents.

In the meantime, thanks for the A, you really deserve it! :)

[draconus]

hello,

i´m new to this.

could somebody please tell me how to upgrade to the f-14a? i don´t get it.

thanks in advance.

 

Do you have DCS open beta latest version?

 

@HB: So it looks like 2m/s wind is enough to rattle the fan blades constantly.

Edited November 19, 2020 by draconus

[juvat22]

thank you for your response.

no, i´m pretty sure that i´ve downloaded the non "open-beta" version. i´ve downloaded the normal version (2.5, first link at download page) and it read´s "up to date".

is that the prob?

[draconus]

thank you for your response.

no, i´m pretty sure that i´ve downloaded the non "open-beta" version. i´ve downloaded the normal version (2.5, first link at download page) and it read´s "up to date".

is that the prob?

 

Yes. The F-14A is available only in the open beta until DCS gets updated to stable (release) version.

You can switch to beta any time as you can go back to stable either using cmd:

https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/english/dcs-world-topics/guides-tutorials-aa/112781-guide-info-dcs-updater-usage-version-numbers-module-ids?t=114030

or use GUI updater:

https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/englis...er-gui-utility

Edited November 19, 2020 by draconus

[MurderOne]

Enjoying the A. Note, if you have any VSN mods installed, it will mess with your A cat. I was having similar issues; A Cat showing up in the ME as the old AI version, try to fly it anyways, DCS crash. Uninstalled all VSN mods and everything's peachy. I can't comment on performance, as there are those here with serious aviation minds and charts that are and have been addressing it. I do feel that the high pitch from the engines is not quite there. That high pitch whine/whistle/screech...was nothing short of intense when a real Cat would taxi past.

[juvat22]

 

Yes. The F-14A is available only in the open beta until DCS gets updated to stable (release) version.

 

OK; so i have to uninstall my current version and install the open beta, is that correct? sorry for my newbie-questions, but i´m 41 years old and i´ve grown up with falcon 3.0.... sorry.. never flew again since that time...

edit says: red baron and strike commander were one of my first sims. it took a long time to await such a sim like that from heatblur. stunning.

[IronMike]

 

OK; so i have to uninstall my current version and install the open beta, is that correct? sorry for my newbie-questions, but i´m 41 years old and grown up with falcon 3.0.... sorry.. never flew again since that time...

 

No, just let DCS do the work for you.

 

Go to your start menu and type "CMD", or, better even, go into your DCS folder, click on bin, so that it is highlighted, then hold left shift and left ctrl and right click on it -> select open powershell window here (or cmd window on older windows versions).

 

Then, when the command window is open type in "dcs_updater.exe udpate @openbeta" including spaces and without the "" of course.

 

Then hit enter.

 

DCS will then update to openbeta for you, and you dont need to do a thing.

[draconus]

@juvat22: Edited my post with the options.

Edited November 19, 2020 by draconus

[Jackjack171]

Not really worried about skins at all. This community has a plethora of skins. Always has and always will! It is almost laughable that this is a concern (there are at least 2 other threads talking about liveries) but oh well! The Jester inconsistencies are really what I would like worked on. I'd like Jester to designate targets and back me up way more than he does. Still looking forward to swapping out the funky bright HGU-33 helmets with the HGU-55 helmets and the Forrestal. The -A feels slightly different in the pattern but not by much. It's just me worried about the stalls! Oh and the "Hornet Ball" call...Lol. But I'm sure it will be corrected.

 

Overall, I'm happy with it!

[panarchist]

@IronMike - loving the "A" so far, and looking forward to skins of the Diamondbacks and the Starfighters in the future. I have only one complaint - the intake sounds are off. The TF-30s sound completely authentic from the back, but the intake noise should have a higher pitched "whistle", and the whistle should be the dominant component of the sound. I worked as a blue shirt in V-1 Division on CV-66 for two years and stood next to the A every day we were deployed, and the intakes just don't sound right. It might be the only thing Top Gun actually got correct - the intake sounds in the on-deck scenes in Top Gun are exactly what the F-14A sounded like from the front.

 

That said, having stood directly behind the TF-30 to warm up in the North Atlantic when they were chocked and at idle, the sound from the rear is spot-on. Kudos to your sound artists, and whoever got you the real sound samples - they did an outstanding job.

 

Flight-wise, and the nozzles themselves - perfection. Looks exactly like what I remember, and the nozzles look just like my photos from '88-'89. Fantastic work!

[Kula66]

It's impossible for the flaps to jam at 200 knots. 250 knots? Very possible. The rated flap speed is 225 knots. Also if you go over 2.5G at any speed, you're entering the flaps danger zone. Moving them while under load is another no-no. Keep is mind this isn't some pure boolean logic either, each time you overspeed the flaps it will be slightly different. Increase your discipline regarding when to use flaps.

 

Hi FC, thanks for taking the time to reply. So, I assume the 225 figure comes from NATOPS?? And at this figure, I assume you're fairly safe from jamming flaps. But at 250, it is 'very possible' ... so the safety magin is only 11%??? Hmmmm

 

We've discussed flaps previously, when last corrected ... I thought the final previous implementation, with a 300+ safety margin more believable, but what do I know. Just when one gets used to the 'correct' FM, it gets changed :(

 

[fat creason]

 

Hi FC, thanks for taking the time to reply. So, I assume the 225 figure comes from NATOPS?? And at this figure, I assume you're fairly safe from jamming flaps. But at 250, it is 'very possible' ... so the safety magin is only 11%??? Hmmmm

 

We've discussed flaps previously, when last corrected ... I thought the final previous implementation, with a 300+ safety margin more believable, but what do I know. Just when one gets used to the 'correct' FM, it gets changed :(

 

I'm sorry that you got used to something and then it changed. We try to get everything right on the first attempt but we're all human here. Many times we will implement something because it's urgently needed (like people abusing flaps in BFM) and our SME has not had the time give his input yet. We try to minimize events like this but it happens. It's also difficult to anticipate the myriad ways people will operate this jet in ways it was never flown in real life.

[juvat22]

sorry, did a training on INS ground align the last few minutes. OK. i will do that in this way tomorrow. thank you very much.

[juvat22]

Edited my post with the options.

 

thanks.

 

[IronMike]

 

This is in your change log:

• Adjusted flap jamming logic - flap jamming is now more likely to occur.
  

So I am a little puzzled when you say 'they are exactly as they were'.

 

I haven't flown the A, not really interested in a low power 14.

 

Prior to the latest patch, I used flaps in a couple of specific situations, at around 200-250kts with no issues, now from my very limited testing, they jam everytime.

 

Oh yes, sorry, Kula, what I said was wrong. I answered too quickly without checking and forgot about Creason's adjustments. Whatever he said, is correct.

[flybull]

@IronMike and @fat creason

 

Thanks iron mike for your lengthy and considered reply to my post.

 

 

 

Would you please confirm the airspeed bug bug has been recognised and that will be rectified?

 

 

 

[RustBelt]

 

There will be more official liveries added on a rolling basis as they get done. We focused on LR-67 equipped F-14A's for this version and we have some more being worked on.

As the other A's are ready we will add more of those appropriate liveries as well.

This is far from the final amount of liveries that will be available.

 

 

It would be cool if you rolled them out in conjunction with Forestall Class releases. Independence and Independence squadron liveries, Saratoga and Saratoga Squadron Liveries, etc...

Nuke carriers whenever I guess, but a big event sort of thing for each Forestall Carrier release.

 

And as always, please, CAG birds.

[IronMike]

@IronMike and @fat creason

 

Thanks iron mike for your lengthy and considered reply to my post.

 

 

 

Would you please confirm the airspeed bug bug has been recognised and that will be rectified?

 

 

 

ah yes, sorry forgot. It is on the list somewhere, I know I once made a tracker for it, just rather low prio atm. But we will get to the small stuff eventually, too.