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Patch Nov 18th - F-14A release - Feedback Thread


IronMike

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5 hours ago, henshao said:

that being said draconus seems to be saying the F-14A is performing opposite to real aircraft. in reality power up = nose up but it seems power up = nose down in the sim.

Oh, no, no. Read again: "with more power comes more airspeed and that needs trimming nose down" - it needs trimming nose down because the nose goes up!

 

6 hours ago, Ghost7 said:

I find this generally does not work in DCS and other civilian sims. Most sims, with a perfectly trimmed aircraft, I bring power all the way to idle and the aircraft stays level but speed drops. Not true in real life.

It does work perfectly in DCS. Lose power and you drop like a rock. If it's not auto-trimmed aircraft the nose will drop too.

Which module behaves wrong in this matter? That's pretty basic flight model stuff simulated from like 80's so I don't know where you get it from.

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It all comes back to the 4 forces of flight and basic aerodynamics. Think about trying to pick up a sushi roll with a pair of chopsticks using a bad grip and too much strength. The two sticks (forces) have to be aligned with one another to keep things balanced. Otherwise the sticks will cross and you'll launch your sushi roll across the room. In the case of the Tomcat, the observed behavior of a reduction in thrust resulting in a reduction of AoA is caused by the center of thrust being located below the center of mass (chopsticks are misaligned). If the center of thrust and center of mass were on the same axis, a change in thrust would result in a (theoretically) negligible change in AoA, because the two forces would be aligned with one another. But in the Tomcat the two axes are misaligned. If you change the thrust the balance is disrupted. The airplane is essentially thrown out of trim, and the AoA will fluctuate. (Increase thrust = pitch up moment, Decrease thrust = pitch down moment)

 

The aircraft will still have a net pitch down and descent with loss of thrust or net pitch up with climb under excess thrust, but in terms of AoA reacting as described- that should be accurate.


Edited by Flash_111
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11 hours ago, draconus said:

Oh, no, no. Read again: "with more power comes more airspeed and that needs trimming nose down" - it needs trimming nose down because the nose goes up!

 

It does work perfectly in DCS. Lose power and you drop like a rock. If it's not auto-trimmed aircraft the nose will drop too.

Which module behaves wrong in this matter? That's pretty basic flight model stuff simulated from like 80's so I don't know where you get it from.

Draconus, adding power should push the nose up, to maintain altitude it requires trimming nose down, I haven't  flown the Tomcat since the last update but I'll give it a try but it sounds like it flies like it should.

 

I experimented with the Tomcat and F-5 a while ago, trimmed level flight and bring the power back to idle at TOD like I'm used to in real life. Both planes stayed level but airspeed dropped. It was a while ago so I'll try it again tonight and get back to you.

 

I stand corrected, I just tried the Tomcat and F-5 and they behaved as expected, that's good to see. It has been a while since I tried those two, spending all my time between the Hornet and the F-16. I don't know if some tuning was done to the flight model recently or if it's me!

 

Now hopefully the power required to taxi will get fixed eventually.

Cheers


Edited by Ghost7
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my mistake. Mbot, not draconus, seems to be saying f-14a is behaving wrong

 

  

On 12/14/2020 at 8:38 AM, MBot said:

I think with the last patch, staying on-speed in the groove became a lot more difficult. With the aircraft trimmed for on-speed in level flight, reducing power to descend will decrease the AOA. This caught me of guard, as generally a reduction of power will go in-hand with forward stick and applying power with back stick.

 

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5 hours ago, Flash_111 said:

It all comes back to the 4 forces of flight and basic aerodynamics. Think about trying to pick up a sushi roll with a pair of chopsticks using a bad grip and too much strength. The two sticks (forces) have to be aligned with one another to keep things balanced. Otherwise the sticks will cross and you'll launch your sushi roll across the room. In the case of the Tomcat, the observed behavior of a reduction in thrust resulting in a reduction of AoA is caused by the center of thrust being located below the center of mass (chopsticks are misaligned). If the center of thrust and center of mass were on the same axis, a change in thrust would result in a (theoretically) negligible change in AoA, because the two forces would be aligned with one another. But in the Tomcat the two axes are misaligned. If you change the thrust the balance is disrupted. The airplane is essentially thrown out of trim, and the AoA will fluctuate. (Increase thrust = pitch up moment, Decrease thrust = pitch down moment)

 

The aircraft will still have a net pitch down and descent with loss of thrust or net pitch up with climb under excess thrust, but in terms of AoA reacting as described- that should be accurate.

 

 

 

The sushi roll launching across the room absolutely wins you the internet today! Hilarious! ❤️


Edited by IronMike
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Updates distribute by ED not HB. HB makes the fixes, ED distributes the patches. Evidently there was a problem with the patch and is being delayed until tomorrow as of now. What the exact cause is unknown.


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10 hours ago, Nealius said:

Back on to F-14A stuff, are there campaigns for the F-14A planned?

 

Yes, HB plans F-14A campaign placed in PG map.

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