[EARLY ACCESS IS A LONG PROCESS]F-16C Forgotten about again

[Droning_On]

Is anyone else getting annoyed with the lack of F-16C updates while the work on the F-18 just seems to be never ending

[Ziptie]

Is anyone else getting annoyed with the lack of F-16C updates while the work on the F-18 just seems to be never ending

 

18 was released much earlier than the 16 - while balance is important, the Hornet has been overdue for quite a long time. Be patient, as other Hornet drivers have been (or not so much sometimes), the Viper drivers will get some love soon enough.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[Bunny Clark]

The Viper got two new major weapons systems not that long ago. It'll return to the spotlight again.

[ebabil]

I am annoyed because whereas imported features like hts or ag radar are pending, they implement maverick boresight feature which makes viper even more annoying.

[Rhinozherous]

The Viper got two new major weapons systems not that long ago. It'll return to the spotlight again.

 

Yes, but one of the systems (Maverick) are more or less useless because of the SPI problems...

[Furiz]

They have said multiple times already that FA18C is the priority to finish, after that comes F16C. I'm not surprised that F16C doesn't get much updates.

[QuiGon]

The Hornet has been there first, so it has to be finished first.

[Fri13]

Is anyone else getting annoyed with the lack of F-16C updates while the work on the F-18 just seems to be never ending

 

The F/A-18C is ED primadonna. That doesn't mean the F-16C is the unliked stepchild but just that it is much newer and it requires its own development time to get things right.

From the ED standpoint it is likely better to get the Hornet out of the Early Access ASAP so they can allocate more developers time for Falcon. And as they are developing new technologies (like a new FLIR that is coming soon, new A-G radar methods, released JHMCS A-G mode etc) it needs to go somewhere first before the learned experience and skills (and code) can be used to develop something else. This is why a one team developing something for one product is better than two teams developing it for two products, as you just get problems if work is doubled and they are different kinds.

 

The Falcon is much newer product, and it can't be prioritized over an older product too much. As it wouldn't be fair for the old customers who purchased Hornet in 2018.

 

There shouldn't be any reasons for Falcon fans to get annoyed, as everyone needs to understand that development takes time, and even if Hornet would be replaced by something else, it would still mean that Falcon comes only after that.

[Stubbies2003]

 

Yes, but one of the systems (Maverick) are more or less useless because of the SPI problems...

 

 

It isn't useless in vis mode. I carry 6x 65D all the time. The target jumping was an issue prior to patch but they have been working pretty well since then.

[Bog9y]

Also features developed for the Hornet, like AG radar, will find their way into the Viper too later. It's not like there is no synergy effect and the Viper does not benefit from current Hornet development at all.

 

I anyways wonder how much of the potential of the current Viper the average dude is able to put to a use right now. From observation a lot of folks can't even take off from the right runway (downwind), distinguish between QNH and QFE or perform a 30DB2 but are mad because they got no feature or weapon system XY right now.

Maybe use the time it takes for new features to flesh out your pilot skills *hint hint* (same goes for demanding new modules all the time while being able to use maybe 30% of each of the others they already own) ;)

 

When it comes to "implement Maverick boresighting which makes the Viper even more annoying": welcome to a simulation or, like someone else just said in another thread: lots of folks are in for more realism, but when it's inconvenient realism there's a lot of crying and tantrum.

 

AMEN to that! I have been doing lots of very basic stuff with the Viper ever since I got it. It's been a lot of fun. Sure, having all the DED features and a ground radar would make things a lot easier and more fun but I can make it work without these things.

[BIGNEWY]

Is anyone else getting annoyed with the lack of F-16C updates while the work on the F-18 just seems to be never ending

 

Early access is a long process, there is no escaping it.

We currently have two engineers full time on the Viper; one is refactoring the entire SPI system for the Viper and the other is finishing up the Maverick and adding POS mode for the HARM. We also just recently re-did the ground handling model and adjust various drag values. Our primary goal is currently to get the Hornet out of early access by the end of the year, so the bulk of our resources must be first dedicated against this task.

 

Also to add, the viper was not "forgotten" in this patch

 

DCS F-16C Viper by ED

• Added pylons mass accounting to FM.
  
• Adjust payloads drag AIM-9.
  
• 3 Syria mission have snap views included creating problems for users - Fixed.
  
• Added CN localization for QS and Single missions.
  
• UFC Training mission static aircraft placement issue - Fixed
  

 

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by BIGNEWY

[BuzzU]

I don't own the Tomcat but i'm always impressed by the updates it gets all the time.

 

I can only dream of the Viper getting the same thing.

[Mustang25]

I don’t understand how people are mad that ED is doing exactly what they told us they’d be doing. I get it guys, we all love the viper and want new features but ED was very clear about their focus on the Hornet first because it’s the older module. I’m personally glad they’re sticking to their word because it’s building faith in me that they can follow through on their promises and not just jump to the next shiny new module.

[Skysurfer]

I don't own the Tomcat but i'm always impressed by the updates it gets all the time.

 

I can only dream of the Viper getting the same thing.

 

And even the 'cat is getting more and more bugs and taking a long time to fix the most basic stuff (if even). The Viper in it's current state is more than fine for Air To Air and general A2G. Obviously some more advanced stuff is still missing as well as an in-cockpit pilot body but those aren't critical features.

[BuzzU]

I don’t understand how people are mad that ED is doing exactly what they told us they’d be doing. I get it guys, we all love the viper and want new features but ED was very clear about their focus on the Hornet first because it’s the older module. I’m personally glad they’re sticking to their word because it’s building faith in me that they can follow through on their promises and not just jump to the next shiny new module.

 

The reason is, we were told about the Hornet being the priority in 2020 after most of us already bought the Viper. I wouldn't have bought it had I known about the plan to concentrate on the Hornet.

[Tango3B]

 

And even the 'cat is getting more and more bugs and taking a long time to fix the most basic stuff (if even). The Viper in it's current state is more than fine for Air To Air and general A2G. Obviously some more advanced stuff is still missing as well as an in-cockpit pilot body but those aren't critical features.

 

And that is the point. The Viper in it's current state is perfectly usable. And that means in SP AND PvP. ED recently gave us better ground handling, Mavericks and HARMs as well as many basic, small fixes so I am a happy man. Furthermore, BN acknowledged that ED was finally able to reproduce the dreaded RWS-SAM auto-scaling bug. Now, if ED manages to fix that also in the upcoming December patch I am a really happy man and one can safely say they did a fine job on the Viper, this year.

[Cali]

Are a lot of things still broke on the 16? Last I heard there were a lot of issues.

[Icebeat]

Conspiracy theory: ED needs to finish the F-18 before they can announce their new secret EA module otherwise navigators are going to be very angry.

 

[Mars Exulte]

Is anyone else getting annoyed with the lack of F-16C updates while the work on the F-18 just seems to be never ending

 

Yeah, and every two weeks they come create a whinge thread just like yours.

[kengou]

Conspiracy theory: ED needs to finish the F-18 before they can announce their new secret EA module otherwise navigators are going to be very angry.

 

It depends. They can announce their next module after the Viper, as long as its in the research phase right now and the Viper is planned to be done first. But yeah, if they announce a new fancy modern aircraft that will be released before the Viper is finished, then I would be annoyed. As I was when the Viper came out so half-baked and the promises of "simultaneous development with Hornet" and "Viper and Hornet won't impact each others development" were broken.

[Tango3B]

Are a lot of things still broke on the 16? Last I heard there were a lot of issues.

 

No, there is nothing really serious I can think of. What we currently have in the Viper does more or less work quite well. Look, I fly the Viper very actively in PvP and I do this every couple of days. The aircraft works fine and flies just nice. I can really recommend the Viper module in it´s current state. Currently there is no show stopper I am aware of and you are good to go in the Viper.

[Crptalk]

SPI is still broken though.... making CCRP and EO PRE nearly useless

[TheBigTatanka]

What's really cool is how well the viper performs in terms of its flight model. You can go out and do the HARTS maneuvers and the viper flies them by the book. The AOA limiter logic and G/trim modeling is spot on too. I guess some SMEs say the G onset rate can be quicker, but hopefully that gets worked on.

 

Avionics is where the viper needs work. Things like the cursor bullseye system, fleshing out the HSD, improvements to the DLZ indications (that may need ED to model the AMRAAM's HPRF vs MPRF), the implementation of multiple nets for the L16, and of course some DED pages.

 

What I find most worrisome about the Falcon's development is that it seems to me most DCS F-16 pilots lack a deep understanding of the systems to demand the same kind of fidelity and implementation that heatblur's customers demand of them -- which is understandable since a lot of the systems information, while not classified, is in limited circulation. My hope is that ED gets a VR training contract for the B course, whose IPs would demand correct symbology of avionics and systems.

 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

 

[ㅤStalker]

Here is my perspective on the F-16:

 

When I pre-ordered this plane it was in surprise. I was surprised by how quickly they announced it, considering the lengthy development time it took to get the Hornet into Early Access. I was equally surprised when they released the Falcon last October. I expected little to be complete at launch, and I wasn't too far off on that. ;)

 

The Falcon is my fighter. The only F-series aircraft I own or will ever own in this simulation. And it's my future aircraft. I'm having an excellent time with deep study on the A-10C, and with the A-10C II update out, the attack jet life just gets better. I'm not touching the Falcon until it's complete enough that I can study it with confidence, knowing that major systems won't change from update to update. Until then, I won't expect to use it for anything serious.

 

That being said, I've had a lot of fun with the Viper already and have zero problems with its development cycle so far. As far as I'm concerned, the Hornet boys should get their toys first. I can wait.

 

Again, just my opinion. :joystick:

[BuzzU]

Here is my perspective on the F-16:

 

When I pre-ordered this plane it was in surprise. I was surprised by how quickly they announced it, considering the lengthy development time it took to get the Hornet into Early Access. I was equally surprised when they released the Falcon last October. I expected little to be complete at launch, and I wasn't too far off on that. ;)

 

The Falcon is my fighter. The only F-series aircraft I own or will ever own in this simulation. And it's my future aircraft. I'm having an excellent time with deep study on the A-10C, and with the A-10C II update out, the attack jet life just gets better. I'm not touching the Falcon until it's complete enough that I can study it with confidence, knowing that major systems won't change from update to update. Until then, I won't expect to use it for anything serious.

 

That being said, I've had a lot of fun with the Viper already and have zero problems with its development cycle so far. As far as I'm concerned, the Hornet boys should get their toys first. I can wait.

 

Again, just my opinion. :joystick:

 

Pretty much what i'm doing too. However, I get to fly the Viper in the other sim and it's pretty complete. I believe the DCS Viper will be more complete when it's done. We'll see.