Mirage F1 project update

[potatoman530]

4 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

We have to be realistic, only a small portion of DCS paying customers are interested on older aircrafts like the Mirage F1 ... and an even smaller subset would be interested in paying extra for a variant, particularly if the Module already includes 4 versions.  Honestly, I'd rather see the developer moving on onto a completely different aircraft, like the F-104 (which served in Spain).

I think a lot of people would rather have a Mirage the could carry Exocets and laser guided missiles then an F-104 with two AIM-9Bs 

[WinterH]

1 minute ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

We have to be realistic, only a small portion of DCS paying customers are interested on older aircrafts like the Mirage F1 ... and an even smaller subset would be interested in paying extra for a variant, particularly if the Module already includes 4 versions.  Honestly, I'd rather see the developer moving on onto a completely different aircraft, like the F-104 (which served in Spain).

And I'd MUCH rather see more Mirage F1s than F-"we forgot putting actual airplane wings on this thing"-104, thank you very much. Besides, going by the less interest on the older aircraft argument, average customers would be much happier paying for Mirage F1 with anti radar missiles, laser guided bombs and missiles, and a targeting pod, than one of the most viceful fighters of history ever. From their point of view, a Mirage F1 would be something they could happily use on most cold war servers, and an F-104 is something they can get killed over and over for not much in return on the same servers

 

I don't like how you seem to equate being realistic to following the flow of the masses, at the expense of your own tastes, especially when the example doesn't hold much water to reinforce the point :).

[Harlikwin]

5 minutes ago, potatoman530 said:

I think a lot of people would rather have a Mirage the could carry Exocets and laser guided missiles then an F-104 with two AIM-9Bs 

 

I mean I half agree with Rudel, I'd like the extra diversity of airframes from that time period, and its actually my hope that future devs skip over doing a "trainer" aircraft and do a simple(r) older aircraft like a mig17 or F104 etc instead. 

 

But yeah I'm pretty sure a more capable F1 would be pretty popular as well. 

[Rudel_chw]

9 minutes ago, potatoman530 said:

I think a lot of people would rather have a Mirage the could carry Exocets and laser guided missiles then an F-104 with two AIM-9Bs 

 

Well, guess that leaves little space for interesting aircrafts from the Cold war era ...  we are condemned to only fly modern aircrafts on DCS that can carry the easier to use wapons.

[WinterH]

13 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

Well, guess that leaves little space for interesting aircrafts from the Cold war era

Very much depends on the Cold War aircraft.

 

I'd be all over a G.91, F-100, Mirage III, Mirage V, MiG-17F, MiG-27K, MiG-25PDS, MiG-25BM, MiG-25RBT, Su-15, Su-17M3 or M4, Buccaneer, Super Etendard or SEM, About 5 or so versions of the F-4, OV-10, Jaguar, Draken... oh lord the Draken... I can keep counting.

But I'd rather get more MiG-21 or Mirage F1 versions over a F-104. Besides, your argument was that average DCS customer wouldn't be interested in more versions of an aircraft. Well, I'm fairly sure said majority of the customer base would be a lot more interested in capable Mirage F1 versions than at least half of the aircraft I've listed above that I am personally looking forward to.

 

Then you have things like F-4, where you can't get people NOT to march with pitchfoks and torches unless you have at least two very different variants of. I do think it is high time for additional variants for additional payment in DCS because we do need more variants to represent different time periods, capabilities, characteristics etc, and it could be feasible for devs and customers alike: new product with relatively lesser effort for devs, new shinty toys and more fleshed out stable for relatively less price for customers. I'd say A-10C II and Blackshark 3 already is prototypes of that model, and it is seemingly worknig well so far.

[TLTeo]

38 minutes ago, potatoman530 said:

an F-104 with two AIM-9Bs 

The -G could carry a whole lot more than two AIM-9Bs though (granted, not the Spanish ones, but the avionics of other customer countries were mostly identical)....

[Harlikwin]

44 minutes ago, WinterH said:

Very much depends on the Cold War aircraft.

 

I'd be all over a G.91, F-100, Mirage III, Mirage V, MiG-17F, MiG-27K, MiG-25PDS, MiG-25BM, MiG-25RBT, Su-15, Su-17M3 or M4, Buccaneer, Super Etendard or SEM, About 5 or so versions of the F-4, OV-10, Jaguar, Draken... oh lord the Draken... I can keep counting.

But I'd rather get more MiG-21 or Mirage F1 versions over a F-104. Besides, your argument was that average DCS customer wouldn't be interested in more versions of an aircraft. Well, I'm fairly sure said majority of the customer base would be a lot more interested in capable Mirage F1 versions than at least half of the aircraft I've listed above that I am personally looking forward to.

 

Then you have things like F-4, where you can't get people NOT to march with pitchfoks and torches unless you have at least two very different variants of. I do think it is high time for additional variants for additional payment in DCS because we do need more variants to represent different time periods, capabilities, characteristics etc, and it could be feasible for devs and customers alike: new product with relatively lesser effort for devs, new shinty toys and more fleshed out stable for relatively less price for customers. I'd say A-10C II and Blackshark 3 already is prototypes of that model, and it is seemingly worknig well so far.

 

Yeah agreed 100%. 

 

I think to fill out DCS for the CW, you most urgently need the F4 at this point, I mean basically everyone flew it in various roles, then followed by the mirage III IMO, huge user base. For Red, a Su-17 and other strikers are the most glaringly missing ones once we get the 23. The Su 17 is in development too but its gonna be a while same for the Mig17. So Red IMO is far better covered than blue for cold war era currently. I personally don't count he 18/16 since they are too new and can't really be nerfed appropriately for online use IMO so we need A versions of the 15/16/18 for the late 70's and 80's. I like the A6 and 7 as well, but pretty limited user base for both. And I'm sure those versions will be more like late80's or early 90's versions anyway.

 

I mean given the existing maps, an F4 would more or less flesh out the Iranian airforce, The mirage F1 and mig23 Su-17 for iraq (and yeah I get that the map doesn't go that far west). And for the Syria map, Israeli F4's/A4's vs syrian mig17/21/23 is a thing that happened at various times. 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Harlikwin

[w4rlord117]

3 hours ago, potatoman530 said:

I think a lot of people would rather have a Mirage the could carry Exocets and laser guided missiles then an F-104 with two AIM-9Bs 

Id rather have the 104 than some missile any day.

[Rudel_chw]

2 hours ago, WinterH said:

.. But I'd rather get more MiG-21 or Mirage F1 versions over a F-104.

 

That's a subjective personal preference .. we already have a MiG-21, and soon we will have a Mirage F1. So, after those, I would prefer to spend my $$$ on an F-104 (or similar cold war aircraft, like the Su-15) instead of a variant of an aircraft that we already have.

 

 

In the meantime, a User Mod is the next best thing    (not realistic, but it is free).

[potatoman530]

22 hours ago, TLTeo said:

The -G could carry a whole lot more than two AIM-9Bs though (granted, not the Spanish ones, but the avionics of other customer countries were mostly identical)....

The G could take dumb bombs, un guided rockets and nords from what I have read, but still only Aim-9Bs as the only AAM it could take

[potatoman530]

23 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

 

I mean I half agree with Rudel, I'd like the extra diversity of airframes from that time period, and its actually my hope that future devs skip over doing a "trainer" aircraft and do a simple(r) older aircraft like a mig17 or F104 etc instead. 

 

But yeah I'm pretty sure a more capable F1 would be pretty popular as well. 

Ok lets say they work on an F-104 instead of a mirage F1 variant. They would have to develop an entirely new flight model, textures, and weapons and the systems along with them. This would take years to complete before even a flight demonstration is ready. Where as with a new variant of an existing plane they don't have to spend time developing a new flight model. They only have to set up new weapons systems, avionics and internal textures. 

[TLTeo]

33 minutes ago, potatoman530 said:

The G could take dumb bombs, un guided rockets and nords from what I have read, but still only Aim-9Bs as the only AAM it could take

Nop, 1) several customers also carried the -P, just like the F-5E we have (examples: here, here, and here 2) technically you have the -B FGW2/-F which was a fair improvement over the -B, even though it looks identical and 3) the 104 also carried the AS.30 and Kormoran missiles for anti shipping, as well as the BL755 for conventional strike.

But to go back on topic, I think IFE are much more likely to develop a 104 than Aviodev are. If Aviodev want to keep on with Spanish jets, there's still the Mirage 3 though

Edited June 2, 2021 by TLTeo

[potatoman530]

8 hours ago, TLTeo said:

Nop, 1) several customers also carried the -P, just like the F-5E we have (examples: here, here, and here 2) technically you have the -B FGW2/-F which was a fair improvement over the -B, even though it looks identical and 3) the 104 also carried the AS.30 and Kormoran missiles for anti shipping, as well as the BL755 for conventional strike.

But to go back on topic, I think IFE are much more likely to develop a 104 than Aviodev are. If Aviodev want to keep on with Spanish jets, there's still the Mirage 3 though

 

Japan carried the P, but from what i have heard European customers did not use anything better then the 9B

[TLTeo]

42 minutes ago, potatoman530 said:

Japan carried the P, but from what i have heard European customers did not use anything better then the 9B

~10 minutes worth of searching returns pictures of US-based, NATO-owned, Dutch, Danish, Taiwanese, Belgian, Norwegian and Greek jets all carrying the -9P, which I guess we can conveniently ignore. Much like the existence of the -9F. The 104G operators that did not use the -P (Germany, Italy and Canada, plus Spain who replaced their fleet before the -P was a thing, and possibly Turkey who mostly flew hand-me-down jets) were more the exception than the norm.

 

We should stay on topic though.

Edited June 3, 2021 by TLTeo

[Harlikwin]

So which sidewinders did the spanish F1 carry? (thats on topic  )

 

[TLTeo]

Smooth I've only found pictures with the AIM-9P (and Magics obviously, but not on Spanish jets). I'm not sure why Aviodev showed the L/M in their video.

[Harlikwin]

Just now, TLTeo said:

Smooth I've only found pictures with the AIM-9P (and Magics obviously, but not on Spanish jets). I'm not sure why Aviodev showed the L/M in their video.

 

Yeah I'd like to see the Magic1 in game. TBH I really really want ED to take a hard look at the magic II and 530D from raz... But I doubt its gonna happen.

 

[Schmidtfire]

Rudel_chw is kind of right. F-104 is a very cool rocket that needs to be made. However looking at the different Mirage F1 versions,
I think we are pretty much covered. Lacking Exocet, yes. But as they say; never send a Mirage F1 to do a Viggens job 

It's also about passion, interest and access. There are reasons why Aerges choose to develop Spanish F1's instead of French or Iraqi variants. 
I personally could do without the Mirage F1-BE trainer, as two-seaters are usually development hogs.  

[kontiuka]

11 minutes ago, Schmidtfire said:

It's also about passion, interest and access. There are reasons why Aerges choose to develop Spanish F1's instead of French or Iraqi variants. 
I personally could do without the Mirage F1-BE trainer, as two-seaters are usually development hogs.  

I think the BE is the sexiest of the bunch but I agree, it's not going to serve that much of a purpose as a training platform since most people will already be pretty familiar with the single seat version by that point.  Still want it though.

[potatoman530]

This may be a dumb theory, but after a quick internet search I discovered that Spain had their first Mirage F1CEs delivered in June of 1975. I don't know the specific date, but I suspect that the devs know and maybe something will happen on said date. But probably just a dumb theory lol.

[Jester986]

After the last video we got I'm going to guess we have a couple months of coding still based on what wasn't shown. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though

[MisterVince]

Back in November @Vibora estimated to have the first version in EA in about 6 months, which brings us to the present days.

 

Could we have an updated, approximate ETA based on your advancement schedule ? Like is it for July ? Is it for September ? Is it for December ? 2022 ?

 

Best,

 

[Bozon]

I’ll buy the F-1.

If you make Mirage III I’ll buy 2. 3 if it affects the release date 

[Dirt_Merchant]

Just jumping in to say - screw the F-104. The F-105 is the better choice! Thud all the way!

 

Seriously though, the untapped Cold War era aircraft are many and varied, and i'd buy all of them as soon as they're made available. Too much of DCS is MFD and glass cockpit systems work, i would love to see a return to stick and rudder, no FBW, early guided weapons, and get away from the overly modern birds (fun though they are). 

[Silver_Dragon]

16 hours ago, Dirt_Merchant said:

Just jumping in to say - screw the F-104. The F-105 is the better choice! Thud all the way!

 

Seriously though, the untapped Cold War era aircraft are many and varied, and i'd buy all of them as soon as they're made available. Too much of DCS is MFD and glass cockpit systems work, i would love to see a return to stick and rudder, no FBW, early guided weapons, and get away from the overly modern birds (fun though they are). 

Aerges has a Spanish 3rd party, the "new" and "old" jets aircrafts on the Spanish Air Force (SAF) was / have:

-Eurofighter Thypoon IB
-F/A-18A/B/EF-18A/B/M
-MirageIIIEE/DE
-F-4C
-F-104G
-F-5E/F

-F-86
-T-33
-Hispano HA-200

-Hispano HA-220

-AV-8S
-AV-8B N/A / Plus

 

Thypoon/Hornet/F-86/F-5/AV-8B has been simulated and on develop on DCS. I think Aernes can turn to a Mirage III/F-104. Other point has been turn to make Helicopters.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Silver_Dragon