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HMD target designation shifts - Slant range related


GVakarian32

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When the JHMCS is powered on, the TGT designation will be seen to drift through the TPOD.

 

This behaviour is seen when the pod looks beyond a certain cutoff range (as yet undetermined) and is in INR mode.

 

Preliminary observation: It would seem that the TGT designation isn't being stabilised to the ground and is instead being stabilised relative to the aircraft.

 

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I experienced this behavior on the first hop right after the update. After exiting DCS and getting back to it few minutes later, I wasn't able to replicate this. I tried numerous times but it worked fine, go figure... need to test it some more.

Right after I noticed the creep on Tpod, I placed the TDC on it and tried to re-designate the target from there. When I moved the cursor it became ground stabilized but pressing the TDC to designate again caused the diamond to creep.

The HUD diamond showed the drift too.

 

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Just tried one run through with this and noticed the same thing. Beyond a certain range (not sure what it is) I also notice that the elevation defaults to -1 (or so...). However, when you are slewing it's the proper elevation... Only when you stop it goes to -1. Is it locking onto wherever it meets 0 elevation and that's why it appears to be slewing through much higher and closer hills?

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I don't know if this is the same problem, but the TD diamond seems really jittery when viewed through the HMD. But when looking at the designation with the pod or on the HSI its steady So the designation is fine but the display is jumping around. Its just like the MIDS symbols they're all over the place when you bank and roll.

DCS F/A-18C :sorcerer:

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This isn't a bug, it is due to the hmd LOS not being able to determine elevation at high ranges. There is a paper online explaining this, quite long.

 

Still a bug though, why would setting TDC to the HUD/HMD make the pod lose its target.

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+1 for the TGP drift issue.

 

 

It is resolved for me, by FLIR SOI, then 'bumping' the TDC slew (or changing to ATRK/PTRK), after TDC depress with HMD SOI. It is very similar to the 'issue' that the A10C experienced originally with slaving the TGP to the HMCS (which was fixed by ED with today's update).

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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I tried it and cannot reproduce. What is the issue exactly?

 

Turn JHMCS and TPOD on.

Designate with TPOD beyond about 10NM

Set HUD/HMD as TDC priority

Observe the TPOD start to slide across the ground as it's elevation now reads 0ft

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Turn JHMCS and TPOD on.

Designate with TPOD beyond about 10NM

Set HUD/HMD as TDC priority

Observe the TPOD start to slide across the ground as it's elevation now reads 0ft

 

It also does it with:

 

HMD and FLIR on.

Designate with HMD SOI.

Observe the FLIR start to slide across the ground.

 

Only way to stop the 'slide' is to TDC priority(SOI) FLIR and either 'bump' the TDC or change to ATRK or PTRK.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

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i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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It also does it with:

 

HMD and FLIR on.

Designate with HMD SOI.

Observe the FLIR start to slide across the ground.

 

Only way to stop the 'slide' is to TDC priority(SOI) FLIR and either 'bump' the TDC or change to ATRK or PTRK.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

 

Yeah ATRK and PTRK work, but INR doesn't which is very annoying as that is the primary operating mode of the pod.

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Here's my observations:

 

If you start with a HMD designation, your TGT point will be in the right direction, but typically wrong distance. AFAICT this does not happen with AGR measurements. With no AGR, it's a question of where it would get the distance data from; unlike the A-10C it doesn't have a terrain database to look up in. (AFAIK the A-10Cs terrain database was added primarily to provide terrain warnings.)

 

Then when you switch to the TGP, your TGP will default to being slaved to the TGT - a point that is now in midair before the target. (Or belowground behind it). As you move laterally, it will have the appearance of drifting, but it's really the incorrect point in the first place. Slewing it doesn't fix the incorrect distance. (Maybe it should?)

 

Switching to AREA track allows you to have the TGP track the correct target. Upon switching, I'm seeing the TGP target coordinates suddenly showing the correct target altitude (and presumably coords) as I switch to AREA. At this point I can TDC Depress to update the TGT point to the correct position...

 

... for a split second. Then the TGT point is set back to the incorrect, midair position. In one test case, the TGT distance went from 3.5 to 4.0 for a split second, then back to 3.5. That's probably a bug.

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Here's my observations:

 

If you start with a HMD designation, your TGT point will be in the right direction, but typically wrong distance. AFAICT this does not happen with AGR measurements. With no AGR, it's a question of where it would get the distance data from; unlike the A-10C it doesn't have a terrain database to look up in. (AFAIK the A-10Cs terrain database was added primarily to provide terrain warnings.)

 

Hornet does have DTED, its part of TAMMAC.

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Hornet does have DTED, its part of TAMMAC.

 

Lol! I'm getting tired of talking about terrain database in the hornet, it's time ED clarifies this once and for all. But yes, hornet does have DTED instead of the DTSAS of the hog.

 

Back to topic, I understand the bug now, and paradoxically it is exactly due to the fact I use to say that it isn't a bug. So it seems that the HMD LOS limitation are taking over a predefined tgt and clears its elevation data like it had beed created there in the first place, therefore jeopardizing the spot. Common bug in first stage of a feature.

Stay safe

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I experienced this behavior on the first hop right after the update. After exiting DCS and getting back to it few minutes later, I wasn't able to replicate this. I tried numerous times but it worked fine, go figure... need to test it some more.

Right after I noticed the creep on Tpod, I placed the TDC on it and tried to re-designate the target from there. When I moved the cursor it became ground stabilized but pressing the TDC to designate again caused the diamond to creep.

The HUD diamond showed the drift too.

 

That is exactly what I've experienced, even after restarting DCS. I didn't have the time to record it as I had to go back to work, but that sounds very much like the problem I had.

202 G. "Irish" Machado - AO



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+1

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JHMCSbug1: TGT desig through HMD, TDC assigned to TPOD, subsequent designations made with TPOD are drifting.

JHMCSbug2: TGT desig through TPOD, acts properly, TDC assigned to JHMCS, TGT drifts, subsequent TDC assignment to TPOD doesnt stop drifting.

 

It would appear that assigning the TDC to the HUD/HMD will cause the TGT to float (when further away than the cut off range). This behaviour cannot be recovered by assigning TDC to something else.

JHMCSbug1.trk

JHMCSbug2.trk

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Here's my observations:

 

If you start with a HMD designation, your TGT point will be in the right direction, but typically wrong distance. AFAICT this does not happen with AGR measurements. With no AGR, it's a question of where it would get the distance data from; unlike the A-10C it doesn't have a terrain database to look up in. (AFAIK the A-10Cs terrain database was added primarily to provide terrain warnings.)

 

Then when you switch to the TGP, your TGP will default to being slaved to the TGT - a point that is now in midair before the target. (Or belowground behind it). As you move laterally, it will have the appearance of drifting, but it's really the incorrect point in the first place. Slewing it doesn't fix the incorrect distance. (Maybe it should?)

 

Switching to AREA track allows you to have the TGP track the correct target. Upon switching, I'm seeing the TGP target coordinates suddenly showing the correct target altitude (and presumably coords) as I switch to AREA. At this point I can TDC Depress to update the TGT point to the correct position...

 

... for a split second. Then the TGT point is set back to the incorrect, midair position. In one test case, the TGT distance went from 3.5 to 4.0 for a split second, then back to 3.5. That's probably a bug.

 

 

AGR is a good point. I noticed that after I've designated a target via HMD, if I SCS forward short - it shows AGR on the HUD and then the target goes to a random location off the nose of the aircraft, most of the time somewhere between 50-100nm out. Not sure what that is all about, forgot to include that snippet in my initial post.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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  • ED Team

Reported

 

Possibly an issue with slant range

 

thank you

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Hi there, after HMD designation and fine tuning with scs on TGP DDI, I can monitor a shifting diamond.

This only stops if I put it in area Track.

 

I don't think that's the way it should be.

But I also played just 15-30 mins around with it.

 

Grettings

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