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Winwing software - major issues that can result in damage to hardware


Andy t

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I started up SimAppPro and it prompted me that there was a lot of bios updates for both panels as well as the throttle and the throttle base and the stick (I own WinWing's entire product line). However, my pit is removed from my PC and all of my devices are plugged into powered USB hubs. Getting to the computer either requires a usb extension cable or dismantling my "PIT". I decided to try flashing things while plugged into the USB hub. Unfortunately, the panels went dark due to flash issues. I was able to get both panels and the throttle flashed by using a USB extension cable to the PC. However, the "control panel" - that's attached to the throttle is still dark, despite me trying to plug it into various USB ports, back front, etc - I did find a port that worked... For some reason the USB port that worked for panels didn't work, but I was able to find a working one. This has been a MAJOR RECURRING ISSUE . At this point I blocked SimApp's internet access via windows firewall. While it does prevent "sign in" at least I don't get unwanted firmware forced on to me and have to go through the song and dance every time. Would it be possible to have someone investigate the issues with flashing over USB hubs? I was able to flash VKB and Virpil via a USB hub. Also, the whole "FORCED FLASH" MUST STOP.

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With so many usb devices, this is an issue, I have to have 3 powered hubs to run all my peripherals......!

System specs: PC1 :Scan 3XS Ryzen 5900X, 64GB Corsair veng DDR4 3600, EVGA GTX 3090 Win 10, Quest Pro, Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo monitor. Tir5. PC2 ( Helo) Scan 3XS Intel 9900 K, 32 GB Ram, 2080Ti, 50 inch Phillips monitor

 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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Works fine for me. All Simappro updates and device firmware updates work without issue.

Ryzen 9 7950X3D - MSI MAG X670E TomaHawk MB, ASUS ROG Ryujin III 360 AIO

64gig Corsair DDR5@6000, Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4090 AORUS

Winwing Super Taurus, Orion2, TO / Combat panels, Collective with Topgun MIP

Winwing Skywalker pedals, NLR Boeing Mil Edition Simpit, Trackir

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so to update firmware, its recommended to unplug from a hub and only use the rear of pc ports........thats a pain...that said, have updated mine with no issues plugged into the powered hub.

System specs: PC1 :Scan 3XS Ryzen 5900X, 64GB Corsair veng DDR4 3600, EVGA GTX 3090 Win 10, Quest Pro, Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo monitor. Tir5. PC2 ( Helo) Scan 3XS Intel 9900 K, 32 GB Ram, 2080Ti, 50 inch Phillips monitor

 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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To add to the problem: some USB on the back of the PC work while others don't for flashing purposes... At this point I am done using their software.

 

You sure it's not a problem with your main board supplying enough power to run multiple devices???

 

Their are those of us who have absolutely no issues at all!

Ryzen 9 7950X3D - MSI MAG X670E TomaHawk MB, ASUS ROG Ryujin III 360 AIO

64gig Corsair DDR5@6000, Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4090 AORUS

Winwing Super Taurus, Orion2, TO / Combat panels, Collective with Topgun MIP

Winwing Skywalker pedals, NLR Boeing Mil Edition Simpit, Trackir

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Similar issue to the OP today, forced Firmware update, nothing near computer, right ball ache sorting this out as the software crashed every time trying to update via powered hubs, ironically they updated via the powered hubs the first time I updated from new, so clearly a software issue not a hardware issue.

 

After that rave and fear I had bricked my setup I too have blocked the software from the internet so it can no longer update.

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I started up SimAppPro and it prompted me that there was a lot of bios updates for both panels as well as the throttle and the throttle base and the stick (I own WinWing's entire product line). However, my pit is removed from my PC and all of my devices are plugged into powered USB hubs. Getting to the computer either requires a usb extension cable or dismantling my "PIT". I decided to try flashing things while plugged into the USB hub. Unfortunately, the panels went dark due to flash issues. I was able to get both panels and the throttle flashed by using a USB extension cable to the PC. However, the "control panel" - that's attached to the throttle is still dark, despite me trying to plug it into various USB ports, back front, etc - I did find a port that worked... For some reason the USB port that worked for panels didn't work, but I was able to find a working one. This has been a MAJOR RECURRING ISSUE . At this point I blocked SimApp's internet access via windows firewall. While it does prevent "sign in" at least I don't get unwanted firmware forced on to me and have to go through the song and dance every time. Would it be possible to have someone investigate the issues with flashing over USB hubs? I was able to flash VKB and Virpil via a USB hub. Also, the whole "FORCED FLASH" MUST STOP.

 

This whole forced update crap is exactly why I am not replacing my RiftS with another Oculus next time as well.......such a load of BS, especially when the updates make things worse not better !

 

 

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Previously, I had no problem flashing Winwing products. Originally, my throttle and startup panel were plugged into the motherboard per recommendations for flashing and to comply with my own strategy: with the throttle/startup panel clamped to the desk, it made sense to use the motherboard usb ports while my hub was for devices that move with my chair/old left console with the Warthog throttle. When I got the new takeoff and combat panels, there were no motherboard ports free, so I used the hub that was inches away. Everything flashed fine.

 

I recently built a new wheeled platform for an F/A-18 left console and mounted the throttle/startup panel on it with the usb hub. So the throttle and startup panel swapped ports with the new panels. I just now tried to update with the latest software patch/firmware and immediately had problems. I figured out that I needed to unplug all but one Winwing device to flash correctly. I don't know if this was a power issue, a noise issue, or some other problem and I didn't try to use the hub ports at all even though they had previously worked fine for flashing just to narrow down the risk. So now, after repeated flash failures (software hanging anywhere between 0% and 45%), having only one device plugged in worked perfectly (while still having many other peripherals plugged in such as a VKB stick and two TM Cougar MFDs).

 

I am happy that everything appears to be working but disturbed by the fact that I did not have any problems before the latest SimApp patch/firmware updates. 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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  • 1 year later...

Winwing e-commerce software is a recently written program that functions as an online business platform for computer hardware company. If there's an error in the software, it can potentially severely damage the hardware of some or all of the customers that utilize it. Here are some of the issues we've run into while developing Winwing and what you should be aware of when using the program.

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Too often I find that obsession with constant "updates" for everything only happens because of sloppy initial work. They can't get it right the first time, so they constantly patch it. To some extent, I understand patching big and complex things like Windows (although if not for some brain-dead design decisions, it wouldn't have needed constant security patches, and most new features are superfluous, too), but device firmware should not require any updates through the device's lifetime. Make it work, and then leave it alone. That's why I liked about my CH gear, the CH Control Manager had UI dating back to Windows 95 and didn't have any buzzword-compliant chrome, but damn it, it worked. Granted, it took some work to set it up right on newer systems, but once that was done, it really just worked, no ifs, no ands, no buts. 

Winwing should heed that lesson. Dispense with "online features" and other unnecessary crap. Keep it simple, and keep the logic straightforward. There's exactly zero need for a stick shaker to only be enabled when connected to the internet. Particularly ridiculous because it's not even for the sake of DRM, since the software is free and the money is in the hardware that uses it.

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As I bought and installed new Winwing hardware, I ran the software and updated the firmware in all of the other devices. From the previous lessons learned, I never have more than one Winwing device plugged in while updating firmware. I haven't had any more problems since following that practice. Some of the firmware updates added useful features that allowed me to better configure my controls. So it turned out to be a good thing that I updated the firmware. But I haven't bought any new Winwing hardware in a long time, so I haven't run the software or updated firmware versions in a long time. Everything has been working perfectly. I am a big fan of "if it isn't broke, don't fix it!" So I don't expect to run the Winwing software or perform any firmware updates unless I buy the newly announced Hornet panel products (the three MFDs and UF).

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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