Request for Trigger SAFE/UNSAFE toggle keybind

[Machalot]

It would be a big playability improvement to have a keybinding that toggles the Viggen's trigger safety between SAFE and UNSAFE -- that is, one press to go UNSAFE, and another press to return to SAFE. As it is, you either have to use the HOLD binding, which can be awkward, or bind two different buttons for SAFE and UNSAFE, which is asking a lot when many joysticks have precious few buttons on the stick.

[PapaFlo]

+1

[unknown]

Interesting, never thought of that myself because of a dual stage trigger. With that you will always unsafe before weapon release. But without it i agree, a toggle function would be great like the master arm toggle in other modules.

[Lieuie]

It certainly would be nice to have it as an option.

[kengou]

I also use a 2-stage trigger for this and it works great. I also have an extra up/down switch bound to unsafe/safe. I agree that we should have the option for those that want it. That said, I would recommend using it as "held" for most people, as it forces you to use trigger unsafe properly. Too many people think it behaves just like in other aircraft and fly around in unsafe for long periods of time when it should really only be used moments before firing on the target to enable radar ranging, etc.

Edited December 2, 2020 by kengou

[Machalot]

I understand the point, but having to hold it with my thumb alters my grip on the stick and makes it harder to fly precisely, especially in the nose down direction. 

 

It also makes it impossible to use any other button that would be pressed by the thumb while the safety is off, including trim adjustments, or in my case a modifier button on the left side. 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Machalot

[Eiskatze]

I agree.
I have a Virpil T50cm2 grip with the flip trigger. This works great in the Mig15 as the trigger safety toggle, but in the Viggen I had to bind a second button  (flip trigger down press button) to close (SAFE) the trigger safety.
Having the single binding toggle option would be good.

[Graphene]

+1

[Machalot]

I would love to get some feedback from HB on this. 

[Northstar98]

On 11/29/2020 at 10:38 AM, unknown said:

Interesting, never thought of that myself because of a dual stage trigger. With that you will always unsafe before weapon release. But without it i agree, a toggle function would be great like the master arm toggle in other modules.

 

I'm lucky in that I have a stick with a programmable flip up trigger, allowing me to program virtual buttons to serve whatever function I like regardless of the options available (unless it's just a toggle).

 

But yes I agree, a toggle would also be very nice.  

[scoobie]

Hi.

If anyone doesn't feel like waiting...

The first trigger detent on my joystick does the trick the OP had in mind (in a different way, but with the same effect).

With each consecutive press, it alternates between two buttons on a (virtual) joystick: button 1, button 2, 1, 2, 1, 2...
These are assigned to, respectively, "Trigger Safety Bracket ARM" and "Trigger Safety Bracket SAFE" in the Viggy.
In the mean time, the second detent is simply the trigger - no magic required for that.

It's just a few clicks, probably around 8, but I wasn't counting

 

[Machalot]

30 minutes ago, scoobie said:

Hi.

If anyone doesn't feel like waiting...

The first trigger detent on my joystick does the trick the OP had in mind (in a different way, but with the same effect).

With each consecutive press, it alternates between two buttons on a (virtual) joystick: button 1, button 2, 1, 2, 1, 2...
These are assigned to, respectively, "Trigger Safety Bracket ARM" and "Trigger Safety Bracket SAFE" in the Viggy.
In the mean time, the second detent is simply the trigger - no magic required for that.

It's just a few clicks, probably around 8, but I wasn't counting

 

Unfortunately I only have a single stage trigger. 

[scoobie]

Oh, yes! Actually... assigning it to the first trigger detent is a severely dumb idea, sorry about that!
I wasn't thinking, I'm new to Viggen and I was just trying to solve the same problem as yours, but didn't actually know which function in Joystick Gremlin (if any!) does the trick so I was experimenting. Found out it was this "Chain" feature.

 

So yeah - you need to assign it to ANOTHER button!
I guess I'll pick that grey button on the right "wall" of the joystick's "head".

 

[unknown]

9 minutes ago, scoobie said:

Oh, yes! Actually... assigning it to the first trigger detent is a severely dumb idea, sorry about that!
I wasn't thinking, I'm new to Viggen and I was just trying to solve the same problem as yours, but didn't actually know which function in Joystick Gremlin (if any!) does the trick so I was experimenting. Found out it was this "Chain" feature.

 

So yeah - you need to assign it to ANOTHER button!
I guess I'll pick that grey button on the right "wall" of the joystick's "head".

 

So you have a two stage trigger joystick, where is the problem? Why not just use the trigger hold key binding? First detend trigger goes from safe to armed -> second detent weapon release -> release trigger, trigger goes back to safe position. This doesn't help people without a two stage trigger ofcourse...

 

[scoobie]

Yeah, I know about "hold" for trigger safety bracket. I bought Viggy the other day and have absolutely no idea how she works... I heard or read somewhere that the computer (that CK37) is somehow "looking" at that bracket and it somehow (I don't know how) matters when exactly you flip it from safe to arm. It may be rubbish, of course, but if it's not - it occurred to me it would be better if I had more "freedom" in choosing when exactly I flip the bracket, instead of having to keep the trigger half-way squeezed for I don't know how long.
I guess I really need to finish reading the manual. Maybe it actually is all rubbish - what I've (mis)heard or (mis)read.

Viggy just seems so different from anything else that I feel kind of dizzy

 

Anyways, for those who don't have two-detent triggers - here's a ready to use solution that doesn't require Heatblur's intervention. That's why I posted it.

 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by scoobie

[Machalot]

10 minutes ago, scoobie said:

Yeah, I know about "hold" for trigger safety bracket. I bought Viggy the other day and have absolutely no idea how she works... I heard or read somewhere that the computer (that CK37) is somehow "looking" at that bracket and it somehow (I don't know how) matters when exactly you flip it from safe to arm. It may be rubbish, of course, but if it's not - it occurred to me it would be better if I had more "freedom" in choosing when exactly I flip the bracket, instead of having to keep the trigger half-way squeezed for I don't know how long.
I guess I really need to finish reading the manual. Maybe it actually is all rubbish - what I've (mis)heard or (mis)read.

Viggy just seems so different from anything else that I feel kind of dizzy

 

Anyways, for those who don't have two-detent triggers - here's a ready to use solution that doesn't require Heatblur's intervention. That's why I posted it.

 

 

 

Setting trigger UNSAFE (open safety bracket) is how you tell the CK37 that the point on the ground beneath the pipper is your target for certain CCRP calculations. 

 

Welcome to the Viggen, by the way!  Hope you find it really satisfying and hope we cross paths on the multiplayer servers.  We always need more Viggen pilots to support anti-ship and other strike missions on the big disorganized servers.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Machalot

[QuiGon]

On 11/29/2020 at 2:16 AM, Machalot said:

It would be a big playability improvement to have a keybinding that toggles the Viggen's trigger safety between SAFE and UNSAFE -- that is, one press to go UNSAFE, and another press to return to SAFE. As it is, you either have to use the HOLD binding, which can be awkward, or bind two different buttons for SAFE and UNSAFE, which is asking a lot when many joysticks have precious few buttons on the stick.

 

+1

[unknown]

59 minutes ago, scoobie said:

Yeah, I know about "hold" for trigger safety bracket. I bought Viggy the other day and have absolutely no idea how she works... I heard or read somewhere that the computer (that CK37) is somehow "looking" at that bracket and it somehow (I don't know how) matters when exactly you flip it from safe to arm. It may be rubbish, of course, but if it's not - it occurred to me it would be better if I had more "freedom" in choosing when exactly I flip the bracket, instead of having to keep the trigger half-way squeezed for I don't know how long.
I guess I really need to finish reading the manual. Maybe it actually is all rubbish - what I've (mis)heard or (mis)read.

Viggy just seems so different from anything else that I feel kind of dizzy

 

Anyways, for those who don't have two-detent triggers - here's a ready to use solution that doesn't require Heatblur's intervention. That's why I posted it.

 

 

 

It's not a Master Arm switch like in other planes, see Machalot's explanation. And a - Have Fun! - with the Viggen also from me. 

[scoobie]

Got it! Thanks

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

+1 holding the trigger safety bracket is kinda odd. 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Also, I notice that many "on/off" bindings are "spring-loaded" which means you must press and hold the button, when bind, in order for it to remain on. It for the computer input/output switch, it is very inconvenient to use since once you click on that switch, you go on and click another down the workflow. This is unlike may paid/free planes of which the on/off binding is, you press the button, the switch bind changes state and stays there, when you click the button again, it changes to another state and remains.

[Machalot]

30 minutes ago, VFGiPJP said:

Also, I notice that many "on/off" bindings are "spring-loaded" which means you must press and hold the button, when bind, in order for it to remain on. It for the computer input/output switch, it is very inconvenient to use since once you click on that switch, you go on and click another down the workflow. This is unlike may paid/free planes of which the on/off binding is, you press the button, the switch bind changes state and stays there, when you click the button again, it changes to another state and remains.

I don't have the spring loaded issue with the computer in/out switch. Which binding are you using? 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

With keyboard it is okay, same as clicking the control. Sorry, I mean binding to HOTAS.

[Machalot]

3 hours ago, VFGiPJP said:

With keyboard it is okay, same as clicking the control. Sorry, I mean binding to HOTAS.

What kind of button or switch are you binding on your HOTAS?

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

I use T16KM, and I bind it to the joystick button, say BTN07 to it, I click the button, the computer input switches to input, but when I release BTN07, it flips back to output. Same goes to Taxi light, etc. Probably the exception of the HUD switches to lower position -- if I click a button, HUD goes to lower position and stays there, and when I click the same button again, it reverts back to high position and again, stays there.