difficulties selective jettison of droptanks when in dogfight mode

[Steelpanther]

I tried to selective jettison when in dogfight guns mode in the f-16 but I could not select the droptanks at all. I had two wingtanks. I was in dogfight mode, selected sms page. and tried to select SJ or drop tanks but could not do it this way. Is this intended behavior? I could not find mention about it in chucks guide dcs f-16. I can do selective jettison in F-16 but only when not in any dogfight mode, and only like e.g. Air-to-Air master mode.

[SpaceMonkey037]

20 minutes ago, Steelpanther said:

I tried to selective jettison when in dogfight guns mode in the f-16 but I could not select the droptanks at all. I had two wingtanks. I was in dogfight mode, selected sms page. and tried to select SJ or drop tanks but could not do it this way. Is this intended behavior? I could not find mention about it in chucks guide dcs f-16. I can do selective jettison in F-16 but only when not in any dogfight mode, and only like e.g. Air-to-Air master mode.

Selective jettison is a seperate master mode like A-G and A-A, therefor it can only be selected if you have the dogfight switch in the centre position.

[Frederf]

S-J can be accessed in any master mode and any override mode (except DGFT/MO apparently).

*Edit because I was wrong

Edited February 16, 2022 by Frederf

[SpaceMonkey037]

2 hours ago, Frederf said:

S-J can be accessed in any master mode and any override mode. SpaceMonkey037 you are 100% wrong.

My bad, the Selective jettison master mode can be accessed through any SMS page except BIT and TEST. However i think this is modelled incorrectly in DCS currently.

[dorianR666]

2 hours ago, SpaceMonkey037 said:

However i think this is modelled incorrectly in DCS currently.

yep, it doesnt work in override modes.

[Florence201]

Easiest way in DG mode is to Emergency Jett the tanks and go CAT I at that point. If you’re at the merge it’s too late to be messing with SMS pages and switching CAT modes imho

[SpaceMonkey037]

On 12/5/2020 at 2:52 PM, Florence201 said:

Easiest way in DG mode is to Emergency Jett the tanks and go CAT I at that point. If you’re at the merge it’s too late to be messing with SMS pages and switching CAT modes imho

Ideally you don't ever want to be in that situation, but that is somewhat true.

[VampireNZ]

On 2/9/2021 at 8:23 PM, SpaceMonkey037 said:

Ideally you don't ever want to be in that situation, but that is somewhat true.

 

I think you will find it is 100% true, and if you look at the ordnance that is jettisoned - exactly the situation you would employ it. If you just want to drop your tanks for no other reason than they are empty, you use S-J. (FYI generally you don't go around punching off empty tanks just 'cause you can' either. Take them home and land with them).

 

If you get jumped on the way to an A-G mission and are merging - you use Emerg Jett to get rid of everything except A-A weapons so you are not dogfighting (and dying) with bombs/tanks on. You don't enter a DF with someone with tanks fit then faff with the S-J page - period.

[Steelpanther]

8 hours ago, VampireNZ said:

 

I think you will find it is 100% true, and if you look at the ordnance that is jettisoned - exactly the situation you would employ it. If you just want to drop your tanks for no other reason than they are empty, you use S-J. (FYI generally you don't go around punching off empty tanks just 'cause you can' either. Take them home and land with them).

 

If you get jumped on the way to an A-G mission and are merging - you use Emerg Jett to get rid of everything except A-A weapons so you are not dogfighting (and dying) with bombs/tanks on. You don't enter a DF with someone with tanks fit then faff with the S-J page - period.

I feel like in some situations I would prefer to keep like tanks, but jetison bombs. But I dont often run into this issue i think what I was trying to do was to find the enemy on boresight dogfight and then jettison centerline only. Other times you just get shot from long range when doing A2G either by SAM or longrange fighter like mig31. In that case I might want to jettison bombs but still evade and maybe continuie doing CAP. But since I made this thread Ive learned how to AAR also so Im  not that dependant on droptanks nowadays. (like i think i can do AAR atleast in low lag server or SP)

[Frederf]

My understanding is that SJ is available in all five major master modes: NAV, AA, AG, MO, DGFT.

[ice41]

ED's Viper manual page 188 says "It is a three-position switch that overrides any mode except emergency jettison." in reference to the dogfight/missile override switch.

 

If selective jettison is considered to be a master mode, then the current implemented behaviour is intentional.

Edited February 15, 2021 by ice41

[Frederf]

After careful reading I'm not sure one way or the other. There are a lot of suggestions that S-J might be available in the override modes:

• S-J label present on SMS in those overrides
• "S-J accessible via OSB 11 on any SMS page except BIT Test MDDE EJ" -1 quote

But procedure of centering DF switch in -1 and wording in both override modes that it overrides all master modes except EJ. It's just hard to believe that they would leave the S-J link in software when it won't actually work. It would be better to blank it if it did nothing. The center DF switch could be for another reason.

 

Got a convincing tale that S-J is inferior priorty to the overrides so label present but can't get in is A.I.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Frederf

[mmcintosh]

I went up on a mission with 4 HARMS doing SEAD. After a time I used SJ to get rid of my center tank. After that no matter what I did I could not get my HARMs to fire! I tried everything! I pressed AG to get into NAV mode, turned off master arm and then press AG again and switched Master Arm on. I can use the HTS to lock up the site but the pickle button will not fire the HARM. This also happens after I land re-arm and takeoff. No matter what I do the HARMs will not fire. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by mmcintosh

[Sinclair_76]

1 hour ago, mmcintosh said:

I went up on a mission with 4 HARMS doing SEAD. After a time I used SJ to get rid of my center tank. After that no matter what I did I could not get my HARMs to fire! I tried everything! I pressed AG to get into NAV mode, turned off master arm and then press AG again and switched Master Arm on. I can use the HTS to lock up the site but the pickle button will not fire the HARM. This also happens after I land re-arm and takeoff. No matter what I do the HARMs will not fire. 

 

After dropping the bag(s) make sure you exit the same way you came in by pressing S-J again. Otherwise is remains in the jettison mode.

[mmcintosh]

On 2/5/2022 at 1:20 PM, Sinclair_76 said:

After dropping the bag(s) make sure you exit the same way you came in by pressing S-J again. Otherwise is remains in the jettison mode.

Okay, so that doesn't answer this issue though. After I land I re-arm and re-fuel. I wait until I hear re-arming complete then I power on the Harms, power on the HAD and I can lock up targets in the HAD all day long but no matter what I cannot fire the HARMS! This is a bug and it's really ticking me off. I only fly DCS maybe twice a week and I LOVE SEAD in the F-16C. I setup a mission with 6 different SA-6, 2 SA-19 and a few Shilkas at three different directions away from my base. As soon as I take off if I don't turn away and climb the SA-6's can get me. I made this mission so that I would:

1. Take off in a hostile environment
2. SJ the center bag after climbing to altitude at full burner
3. Use 4 Harms against 2 SA-6's and the 2 SA-19s
4. Land, re-arm, re-fuel
5. Take off in a safe environment with 2 Harms and 2 CBU-105s
6. Kill the last 2 SA-6's with Harms
7. Use the CBU-105s in TGP or DTOS to get rid of the Shilkas
8. All of this before before Hornets with AGM-65s launch from the Roosevelt to kill the rest of the armor

It's a slick practice mission but not ONCE have I been able to complete Steps 6 or 7 so the poor Navy guys all get shot down!

 

[JesseJames38]

I have never had any issues using harms or any other weapons after using the SJ system.    I have seen other people have issues using SJ by not leaving the SJ page by clicking the SJ button in the bottom right of the mfd screen to take them back into the invintoey page.    In that case they where still stuck in the S JETT page and didn’t know.   

[Chibawang]

That’s 100% the issue lol. The pickle button is still tied to the jettison function, doesn’t matter how many mode buttons you tap.

[Sinclair_76]

3 hours ago, Chibawang said:

That’s 100% the issue lol. The pickle button is still tied to the jettison function, doesn’t matter how many mode buttons you tap.

If the order of doing things is exactly as he has stated it's not. Otherwise he wouldn't have been able to release the first -88C's.

[Frederf]

Look in the bottom-left corner of the HUD. If it says "JETT" then you're in S-J or E-J.

[Chibawang]

 

@BIGNEWY Just noticed something about this I don't think is intended. If you press the SJ button while in an override mode such as DGFT or MRM, it appears to be disabled as has already been said. If you then release the override switch back into a master mode, you will find yourself in selective jettison mode! So in other words, it is accepting the input but sending it to another mode's menu structure.

[BIGNEWY]

1 hour ago, Chibawang said:

 

@BIGNEWY Just noticed something about this I don't think is intended. If you press the SJ button while in an override mode such as DGFT or MRM, it appears to be disabled as has already been said. If you then release the override switch back into a master mode, you will find yourself in selective jettison mode! So in other words, it is accepting the input but sending it to another mode's menu structure.

I have asked the team about it. 

thanks

[mmcintosh]

Okay, this is a BIGGER issue now because it happened without any SJ this time.

1. Took off with 4 HARMS
2. Killed SA-6's and SA-19s
3. Landed re-armed and didn't do anything until re-arming was 100% complete
4. Went through all HARM pre-checks as normal
5. Used HAD to lock up another SA-19 with Master Arm On
6. The white box NEVER turns red on the locked target

I have been a software engineer for 30 years and this is a BUG!!! I have uploaded a track file this time to prove my point.

 

 

 

Successful SEAD, LAND re-arm, no weapons work, attempt landing on carrier.trk

Edited February 26, 2022 by mmcintosh

[mmcintosh]

On 2/25/2022 at 11:31 PM, mmcintosh said:

Okay, this is a BIGGER issue now because it happened without any SJ this time.

1. Took off with 4 HARMS
2. Killed SA-6's and SA-19s
3. Landed re-armed and didn't do anything until re-arming was 100% complete
4. Went through all HARM pre-checks as normal
5. Used HAD to lock up another SA-19 with Master Arm On
6. The white box NEVER turns red on the locked target

I have been a software engineer for 30 years and this is a BUG!!! I have uploaded a track file this time to prove my point.

 

 

 

Successful SEAD, LAND re-arm, no weapons work, attempt landing on carrier.trk 4.97 MB · 2 downloads

 

Really? Seriously? No responses at all with all the data I have provided? 

[mmcintosh]

6 minutes ago, mmcintosh said:

Really? Seriously? No responses at all with all the data I have provided? 

I have submitted this as a ticket because it CLEARLY is a bug! 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support/123338/