MiG-23 really?

[1MajorKoenig]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Dudikoff:

It would be nice to be able to find assessments on the newer and more capable variants (like e.g. East German MLs or the Syrian one which defected to Israel).

I think even these were still somewhat  downgraded. But an MLA or MLD was probably still a reasonable strong and cheap small fighter even in the 1980s. 

[Harlikwin]

1 hour ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

I think even these were still somewhat  downgraded. But an MLA or MLD was probably still a reasonable strong and cheap small fighter even in the 1980s. 

 

Yeah, frankly what you can take away from the constant peg stuff is specific to that model, which the MLA/MLD were drastically improved versions of. So how much of it really applies is a bit dubious. I mean you'd be judging a block 50 F16 by listening to someone talk about an export Block 10 F16. Except the comparison is more skewed since the MLA was lighter, had less drag, could pull 8.5g, had a more powerful engine etc.

 

[pepin1234]

Was a good fighter for his Era. Just keep in mind he was the dorsal spine for the Warsaw pact countries when started a new generation of high capable radars and BVR missiles family those F-15 packages were a terrific game changer, for a weaker soviet empire taking long time to respond to a new technological air combats tactics. Moreover the Soviets gave the Mig-23 totally downgraded to Syria to stamp a terrible reputation, plus the poor discipline shown by Syrian pilots. The Soviets instructors told Syrian pilots they will get the success if they go in the right direction in tactics. they went most of the time on their own game way. late exported Mig-23 have victory against F-15 and F-16 Israelis never confirmed and for that time was the Perestroika of Gorbachov working hard to destroy the empire, so who care about victories at that time...? plus with the death and losses increasing in Afghanistan... Never forget about F-14, F-5, F-4 downed in Irak-Iran war... or F-1 downed in Angola-South Africa war (please read about the soviet withdraw from that war too, leaving Cubans and Angolans alone against South Africa in Cuito Cuanabale battle) Were a lot of factor involved in the bad reputation of Mig-23 and most of those were on the soviets administration shoulders... So you can keep in mind was a tough time for the flogger.

 

At the other hand we have the F-14 in DCS shooting down the coconuts of the palms if you want to... with Aim-54 (only in DCS)   

Edited May 15, 2021 by pepin1234

[Cantankerous]

I am looking forward to this plane very much indeed.

 

I have a couple of questions, which I have not been able to resolve myself:

1) Sustained turn rate. Should the 23 be able to change its flaps/wing angle to increase its turn rate in broadly the same way that the F14 seems to do ?

2) If so is that a viable tactic in a merge / dogfight ?

 

Thanks in advance

 

C

[Harlikwin]

2 hours ago, Cantankerous said:

I am looking forward to this plane very much indeed.

 

I have a couple of questions, which I have not been able to resolve myself:

1) Sustained turn rate. Should the 23 be able to change its flaps/wing angle to increase its turn rate in broadly the same way that the F14 seems to do ?

2) If so is that a viable tactic in a merge / dogfight ?

 

Thanks in advance

 

C

Yeah, the "Dogfight" wing sweep was like 45 degrees, and on the later ones (ours) changed to 33 IIRC. The sweep adjustment is manual unlike the F14 though. Most likely you'd set it before the fight, as there is a G limit for changing the sweep. 

[TLTeo]

I'm also not sure whether flap and slat deployment is automatic or not (or even contemplated in combat really).

[Cantankerous]

Thanks for the answers people

[æck]

On 3/2/2022 at 10:27 PM, TLTeo said:

I'm also not sure whether flap and slat deployment is automatic or not (or even contemplated in combat really).

It isn't, although the flaps do automatically retract to prevent overspeed damage. The leading edge flaps are linked to the regular flap deployment, so they won't automatically extend at high AoA. That also means they can only be extended when the wing is in 16° sweep which imposes an airspeed limit of 800 km/h.

[FlankerKiller]

I cannot express how much I'm looking forward to this bird. I feel like models almost have to exist in an ecosystem. And the Mig 23 will have one. It'll fall right in with the Mig-21, Mi-24, Mi-8, and a huge chunk of the ground assets. With direct rivals in the F-14, F-5E, AJS37, UH-1H, of course the F-4E, and eventually the A-7E, and A-6. So there is a lot to both fly with and fight. Having some BVR in a full fidelity red air bird is going to be super cool. And I've always felt it's just a very interesting jet. A single seat, single engine, swing wing. I really really can't wait to go big cat hunting. 

[rkk01]

On 3/4/2022 at 5:33 PM, FlankerKiller said:

I cannot express how much I'm looking forward to this bird. I feel like models almost have to exist in an ecosystem. And the Mig 23 will have one. It'll fall right in with the Mig-21, Mi-24, Mi-8, and a huge chunk of the ground assets. With direct rivals in the F-14, F-5E, AJS37, UH-1H, of course the F-4E, and eventually the A-7E, and A-6. So there is a lot to both fly with and fight. Having some BVR in a full fidelity red air bird is going to be super cool. And I've always felt it's just a very interesting jet. A single seat, single engine, swing wing. I really really can't wait to go big cat hunting. 

Unfortunately there are some blindingly obvious omissions in that ecosystem - Jaguar, Tornado, Harrier, Buccaneer, Starfighter

[Harlikwin]

1 hour ago, rkk01 said:

Unfortunately there are some blindingly obvious omissions in that ecosystem - Jaguar, Tornado, Harrier, Buccaneer, Starfighter

All coming eventually. 

[FlankerKiller]

1 hour ago, Harlikwin said:

All coming eventually. 

Vary true. Let's hope. I for one have had my fill of the ultra modern birds U.S. birds. 

[Harlikwin]

31 minutes ago, FlankerKiller said:

Vary true. Let's hope. I for one have had my fill of the ultra modern birds U.S. birds. 

Mirage is coming soon, lets hope it sells well.

 

[jacobs]

1 hour ago, Harlikwin said:

Mirage is coming soon, lets hope it sells well.

 

Imagine the battles between the coming F-1 and Mig-23... enigma's cold war server will be huge!

[spacemishka]

Am 2.3.2022 um 20:43 schrieb Harlikwin:

The sweep adjustment is manual unlike the F14 though.

well hopefully they will implement the automaic sweep control as well

[Olliegb]

2 hours ago, spacemishka said:

well hopefully they will implement the automaic sweep control as well

There is no automatic wing sweep on the MiG-23, only manual.

[spacemishka]

Am 27.3.2022 um 23:16 schrieb Olliegb:

There is no automatic wing sweep on the MiG-23, only manual.

The later versions like MLA do have

[æck]

8 hours ago, spacemishka said:

The later versions like MLA do have

no they don't, no versions of MiG-23 had automatic sweep (you wouldn't want it either with the G restrictions imposed during changing wing sweep).

and neither did Su-24 or Su-17, it really just wasn't a thing in Soviet planes.

[Olliegb]

15 hours ago, æck said:

no they don't, no versions of MiG-23 had automatic sweep (you wouldn't want it either with the G restrictions imposed during changing wing sweep).

and neither did Su-24 or Su-17, it really just wasn't a thing in Soviet planes.

do you know the G restrictions? I would love to know.

[æck]

2 hours ago, Olliegb said:

do you know the G restrictions? I would love to know.

according to the MiG-23ML aero manual you must be at 4 G or below when the wing is actively moving.

and as I understand it this isn't strictly a structural limit, but just that it puts too much strain on the wing sweep mechanism causing it to temporarily jam.

[Olliegb]

21 hours ago, æck said:

according to the MiG-23ML aero manual you must be at 4 G or below when the wing is actively moving.

and as I understand it this isn't strictly a structural limit, but just that it puts too much strain on the wing sweep mechanism causing it to temporarily jam.

Thank you! good to know for when this gets released.

[CarbonFox]

Based on what I've read from the Red Eagles novel, I'm looking forward to the Flogger just to see what it can do when used in Hit & Run attacks. Catching it in MP servers won't be easy when it turns cold and runs its AB flying low.

[Harlikwin]

On 5/6/2022 at 10:02 AM, CarbonFox said:

Based on what I've read from the Red Eagles novel, I'm looking forward to the Flogger just to see what it can do when used in Hit & Run attacks. Catching it in MP servers won't be easy when it turns cold and runs its AB flying low.

Yeah, well people will be in for a surprise. That book laid a very very low bar for the flogger, because what they had were literally the worst versions of it (and it still accelerated like a bat out of hell). But the MLA being 2nd gen flogger had more thrust, less weight, much better aero refinements, and a decently capable radar. Basically if you want a taste of it, go grab the mi29A, load it up with R27r, and R60m and goto town... it should be about like that minus some turn rate, and with better acceleration.

 

[YoYo]

On 5/8/2021 at 3:15 PM, Harlikwin said:

 

Manyana... 

[JunMcKill]

 wake me up when 2025 ends 

Edited May 20, 2022 by JunMcKill
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