within expected cep [CORRECT AS-IS] CCIP Bugged?

[CHSStarKiller]

yes I get the P/INS advisory on deck after alignment.  I put it in IFA instead of NAV on deck now and all seems to work.

[Stearmandriver]

4 hours ago, CHSStarKiller said:

yes I get the P/INS advisory on deck after alignment.  I put it in IFA instead of NAV on deck now and all seems to work.

 

Until it doesn't.    This bug is a lot more intermittent than just depending on what position the INS knob is in.  Mine has been in IFA every time I've seen it. 

[Al-Azraq]

I’m finding CCIP bombing with he Mk 82s inaccurate as well. I set up a simple escenario with Strelas and air start but my bombs miss a lot of time. I remember that while I was learning DCS I practiced with the Hornet in CCIP and had a high impact rate. Now I have way more experience yet my bombs miss although I do the 30 - 45 degree dive, line is aligned, etc.

[Stearmandriver]

This may or may not be related but I've noticed it several times as well: the airplane symbol on the HSI rotating with cross wind instead of remaining oriented straight up.  In this photo,  the wind is blowing hard out of the north, so a right quartering tailwind.  Is this a bug, or is there something I don't understand about the airplane symbol on the HSI?  (You'll note we're in AINS so the INS is aligned correctly and using GPS).

[Gusti]

On 12/10/2020 at 1:32 AM, Stearmandriver said:

Interesting, thanks for the responses.  Seems like it's likely related, so as long as ED is aware I guess that's the best we can do. 

 

Here's a screenshot of the last time I tried it.  The problem is not as pronounced as I've seen it, but you get the idea.  You can see we're in a mostly wings-level dive (very slightly left wing low), and the CCIP symbology is deflected to the right.  Impact point was far left of target. 

For more accurate  CCIP bombing, you need to move the sensor control switch up in order to have ground radar support. This will be seen in the HUD with “AGR” shown above the CCIP label. Normally, i get good hits with AGR enabled. However, I feel also CCIP is not always working as accurate as it should compared to the F16, without AGR support it is almost useless. 

[Joni]

7 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

This may or may not be related but I've noticed it several times as well: the airplane symbol on the HSI rotating with cross wind instead of remaining oriented straight up.  In this photo,  the wind is blowing hard out of the north, so a right quartering tailwind.  Is this a bug, or is there something I don't understand about the airplane symbol on the HSI?  (You'll note we're in AINS so the INS is aligned correctly and using GPS).

 

Yes, that is correct behavior, the line is your nose and the diamond is your track. When doing high Gs you will see that in HUD. Also if there is wind.

 

I didn't find any innacuracy in CCIP.

 

Can you guys post tracks?

Edited December 14, 2020 by Joni

[Stearmandriver]

Thanks. I knew about the nose and track pointers, but did not know the airplane symbol was supposed to rotate.  I've seen it often enough that I suspected it was though, so I wasn't sure that was a bug. 

 

The crooked CCIP line definitely is, and I will definitely save a track the next time I see it.  There are enough pictures and videos (including my own screenshot earlier in this thread) to prove it exists though. 

[Joni]

1 minute ago, Stearmandriver said:

 

 

The crooked CCIP line definitely is, and I will definitely save a track the next time I see it.  There are enough pictures and videos (including my own screenshot earlier in this thread) to prove it exists though. 

 

Yeah, but it isn't about proof but rather a track where all parameters at the moment of the bug can be seen by ED. And that other users can replay and see if on their machines happens the same.

[Al-Azraq]

We need to provide a track guys, I’m off the PC for all day unfortunately. Can someone do it?

[Stearmandriver]

The problem is that this is very intermittent for me (and I can usually only fly a few missions per week and am often doing something other than CCIP bombing).  But I'm actually going to have more time than usual this week, and Liberation 2.3 is releasing, and so I'll work a couple dumb bombs into whatever loadout I'm carrying on every mission I get a chance to do, and will definitely save the track if I can make it happen. 

[Joni]

When a track is needed you don't have to wait until you see the bug, you have to force it.

 

Go and jump in the cockpit and start doing CCIP until it happens.

[oldcrusty]

On 12/9/2020 at 4:32 PM, Stearmandriver said:

Interesting, thanks for the responses.  Seems like it's likely related, so as long as ED is aware I guess that's the best we can do. 

 

Here's a screenshot of the last time I tried it.  The problem is not as pronounced as I've seen it, but you get the idea.  You can see we're in a mostly wings-level dive (very slightly left wing low), and the CCIP symbology is deflected to the right.  Impact point was far left of target. 

Kinda looks Viper-ish, just switch cross for a circle.  Was the the angle persistent when maneuvering? 

I tried everything to replicate this, including high g (in A/A mode, only 2 Mk82's loaded) before switching to A/G. I wasn't able to.  I started in the air though. 

[Stearmandriver]

5 hours ago, Joni said:

When a track is needed you don't have to wait until you see the bug, you have to force it.

 

Go and jump in the cockpit and start doing CCIP until it happens.

That... sounds like a bit of work that the dev is being paid to do, and I'm not.  I'm not ED's quality control ;).  But I'll help when I can and get a track when I see it. 

1 hour ago, Gripes323 said:

Kinda looks Viper-ish, just switch cross for a circle.  Was the the angle persistent when maneuvering? 

I tried everything to replicate this, including high g (in A/A mode, only 2 Mk82's loaded) before switching to A/G. I wasn't able to.  I started in the air though. 

The angle seemed exaggerated with pitch.  This particular example was not very pronounced; I've seen it where the CCIP line is 45 degrees off in straight and level. 

[Al-Azraq]

8 hours ago, Joni said:

When a track is needed you don't have to wait until you see the bug, you have to force it.

 

Go and jump in the cockpit and start doing CCIP until it happens.

 

I'll do it today, it is done in 20 seconds literally as it happens every time. I will do the track with the dumb bomb training scenarios that come by default in order to isolate any issue with the ME on my behalf.

[Al-Azraq]

Hey guys!

 

As promised, I attach the track file showing the bug using the Nevada map and the official included mission. Both bombs miss even though the release conditions were good. This bug can be reproduced 100% of the time.

 

Also this is the video evidence:

 

 

Hornet CCIP bug.trk

[Joni]

58 minutes ago, Al-Azraq said:

Hey guys!

 

As promised, I attach the track file showing the bug using the Nevada map and the official included mission. Both bombs miss even though the release conditions were good. This bug can be reproduced 100% of the time.

 

Also this is the video evidence:

 

 

Hornet CCIP bug.trk 1.61 MB · 2 downloads

 

I see the issue. I don't have it in my missions only in yours. I wonder what that can be.

[Joni]

I stand corrected. This bug does happen to me as well.

 

Can we please change the tag? I think Wags changed it.

[Joni]

Track attached.

ccip bug.trk

[NineLine]

Hey guys I'll look at this tonight and let you know

[NineLine]

So I tried it out, and I really didnt see an issue, obviously its not like a guided weapon, and can miss even with a subtle movement, but I never really missed more than 10-15m and in most cases could feel I messed up. Of course I have been head down in the WWII DM and such, so if I am missing something here, or you want me to try something more specific, let me know.

 

Thanks!

 

[Joni]

8 minutes ago, NineLine said:

So I tried it out, and I really didnt see an issue, obviously its not like a guided weapon, and can miss even with a subtle movement, but I never really missed more than 10-15m and in most cases could feel I messed up. Of course I have been head down in the WWII DM and such, so if I am missing something here, or you want me to try something more specific, let me know.

 

Thanks!

 

 

Thanks.

 

What happens when you play the tracks we provided? You see a miss?

 

I at least wasn't by any means trying to achieve precision guided munition accuracy.

[Stearmandriver]

Interesting.  Al-Azraq's video is not what I've seen; tbh, I don't actually see a problem in that video, that looks like normal behavior to me.  What are you seeing that looks wrong?  I mean yes the bomb misses but the impact is close and you're aiming for a small target. 

 

The problem I was talking about involves the CCIP line extending downwards from the VV at an incorrect angle; most noticeable in level flight when it does not extend straight downwards but instead off to the side.  This results in really significant, outside-the-margin-of-error misses... but it's not reproducible for me, in any way I can figure out. 

 

Thanks to everyone for looking into this though. 

[oldcrusty]

Do you guys see it in MP, SP or both?  I only put it through paces in SP. I'm actually pretty happy with the way CCIP works currently.  Auto... I'm not sure. Quite a few people reported issues with auto delivery. I did stumble on a little quirk while testing CCIP tonight. In couple of my high altitude drops I saw the designation shift after putting SOI on the HUD. The target was on top of a 11k foot mountain and after going to HUD, the diamond shifted about a mile downhill. It's a separate issue though. I'll make another thread when I figure out the cause. There is a chance I moved the cursor by accident or whatever. On the following runs I didn't bother putting the SOI on HUD (AGR is still on if within parameters) and the bombs hit dead on.

Run in from 30k.

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Gripes323

[Al-Azraq]

4 hours ago, NineLine said:

So I tried it out, and I really didnt see an issue, obviously its not like a guided weapon, and can miss even with a subtle movement, but I never really missed more than 10-15m and in most cases could feel I messed up. Of course I have been head down in the WWII DM and such, so if I am missing something here, or you want me to try something more specific, let me know.

 

Thanks!

 

Thanks Nineline! Indeed it looks good in your video and the bombs are on target. Is it possible that you try with small targets like a truck? What happens when you play my track? What kind of alignment do you have in your video? IFA or NAV?

 

Finally, is it possible to share your track?

 

It is not just me that have this issue and assure you that when I jump into the F16 my bombs are very very accurate.

 

Let’s try to find out but I would be glad to discover that the issue was on our behalf and no fix is needed.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Al-Azraq

[NineLine]

Smaller you say?

Evil cows raiding NTTR... anyways you can see they are not perfect, nor should they be but I feel all three hits were well within expected distance from the target, especially one that was super hard to see.