How do you land the viper without running out of runway

[ruddy122]

I could walk away if at Al Dhafra or Al Minhad with 12000 foot strips but shorter runways I end up hitting the ils bar or wall or fence still going any helpful words of wisdom is much appreciated

 

 

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[Tholozor]

How much fuel are you landing with? Are you landing with unspent ordnance? Are you aerobraking?

[Donglr]

Well I guess it takes a bit of everything:

1) come in at good speed, i.e. actually fly the AoA bracket

2) fly with airbrake deployed. The F16 is landed with airbrake.

3) Use aerobraking, i.e. keep the nose up even when already with wheels on the ground to increase air resistance

4) apply wheelbrakes  when all wheel are in the ground. In my experience it is better to apply ~80%, if you go full brakes wheels will lock and you will swerve. Locked wheels will leave skid marks on the runway

5) pull back stick to create "poor-man's" airbrake with your elevators

 

All of this together gets me stopped basically everywhere

[ruddy122]

I try to land with three bags

Worst Case

I’ll change the key bind so I don’t lock up the wheels


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[ruddy122]

I figured out how to land on the boat with rough AOA with the Hornet

Now to the Viper


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[ruddy122]

It’s the post landing rollout

I land at AOA no problem is stopping that’s the problem

The wheels lock up I swerve and my awesome landing becomes a smoking hole


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[KaptinKaos]

12 minutes ago, ruddy122 said:

It’s the post landing rollout

I land at AOA no problem is stopping that’s the problem

The wheels lock up I swerve and my awesome landing becomes a smoking hole


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Anti-skid still isn't implemented, try not to lock the wheels.

[silverdevil]

this may sound way out there. but do you use pedals? maybe the curve and sensitivity need to be adjusted?

[flavnet]

3 hours ago, Donglr said:

Well I guess it takes a bit of everything:

1) come in at good speed, i.e. actually fly the AoA bracket

2) fly with airbrake deployed. The F16 is landed with airbrake.

3) Use aerobraking, i.e. keep the nose up even when already with wheels on the ground to increase air resistance

4) apply wheelbrakes  when all wheel are in the ground. In my experience it is better to apply ~80%, if you go full brakes wheels will lock and you will swerve. Locked wheels will leave skid marks on the runway

5) pull back stick to create "poor-man's" airbrake with your elevators

 

All of this together gets me stopped basically everywhere

This is exactly what you need to do with the Viper for a perfect landing. Regardless of landing weight.

[ruddy122]

Sounds like Anti Skid is off

Cause I Aerobrake less than 15 nose up around 13 not to damage the airbrakes


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[ruddy122]

Anti Skid On

On AOA 182 with 3 Bags no rudder pedals

The problem is stopping when heavy

How much runway do I need and what is your technique of not locking up the brakes and swerving


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[GGTharos]

I would imagine when you're heavy maybe you need a slightly different landing technique - one degree or 1.5 less on the glideslope and 1-2 degrees more AoA to begin with.

[ruddy122]

I’ll make the Viper lighter see if that helps


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[ruddy122]

What’s a good configuration air to air that is light for a viper

I was thinking 6 Aim-120C and no bags worst case

If I used all my missiles it would be a clean viper


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[GGTharos]

How about the number of missiles and bags doesn't matter, only the amount of fuel you've loaded into all of this?   You'll have a certain amount of fuel remain after the flight, anywhere from 'minimum' (like say, 1000lbs or whatever it is for the viper) to 'I didn't get in a fight so I have a bit more' like 3000lbs.  

[ruddy122]

I didn’t know that so if you have a lot of fuel your viper is heavy on landing thought it was drag

Learn something new everyday


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[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

I had issues with the landing distance as well, until I started applying what I read in 'Semper Viper':
- fly the middle of the AoA bracket (13 degrees), not the top as per Wags' video (11 degrees);

- on touch-down you might feel as if the aircraft is bouncing even when it isn't: as soon as the main wheels touch the runway, start applying gentle wheel brakes while keeping the nose up;
- when the nose starts dropping even with full aft stick (this won't take long), hit the override on your airbrakes to make them open fully;
- keep applying full aft stick while progressively adding more wheel brake the more you slow down.

With this technique, you can come to a full stop in about 1/3rd of the runway length (at normal landing weight).

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Elysian Angel
typo

[GGTharos]

 

 

6 minutes ago, Elysian Angel said:

- on touch-down you might feel as if the aircraft is bouncing even when it isn't: as soon as the main wheels touch the runway, start applying gentle wheel brakes while keeping the nose up;

 

It's pretty cool that you came up with this technique, but I suspect that IRL this would be a no-go.  Obviously your game, play how you will:

 

 

I suspect that this isn't modeled in game but you wouldn't do it for two reasons:

 

1)  Touching the brakes while aerobraking ould force the nose down (think about it)

2) Applying the brakes at high speed will cause overheating which would eventually cause the tyres to explode or the brakes would even catch fire (This part isn't modeled)

 

If you want to do a minimum ground-run landing, get the nose on the ground right away and then apply full brakes.   No 'gentle braking' while the nose is up.  Either full brakes with all wheels on the ground, or no brakes and aerobraking, then brakes as required after the nose comes down and speed is reduced below a certain threshold.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Elysian Angel said:

With this technique, you can come to a full stop in about 1/3rd of the runway length (at normal landing weight).

 

Aerobrake normally.  For a very heavy aircraft, the beginning is what you got right - more AoA, less glideslope, thus less speed, then either continue aerobraking (you're landing with aerobraking attitude so you're there right away)  and follow a normal roll-out or stick everything on the ground and brake with all there is (or as required).

 

 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

22 minutes ago, GGTharos said:

It's pretty cool that you came up with this technique, but I suspect that IRL this would be a no-go.

I didn't: Joe Bill Dryden did. I read Semper Viper where he said he is a test pilot, and that's how he recommends landing  (or at least how he did it).
Prior to reading those articles in Code One Magazine (I have the PDF), I didn't apply wheel brakes before hitting 100 knots with the nose wheel on the ground. I indeed had the idea that that's how it was done IRL, and I'd rather avoid DCS-isms.
 

  

22 minutes ago, GGTharos said:

Touching the brakes while aerobraking ould force the nose down

Yeah I know, Joe Bill Dryden explained that as well.

 

  

21 minutes ago, GGTharos said:

Applying the brakes at high speed will cause overheating

Which is why I didn't do it prior to reading Semper Viper. I figured the technology must have improved...

Edited December 10, 2020 by Elysian Angel

[ruddy122]

I got Semper Viper printed out but don’t have the pdf version

Can you post the link to it?


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[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

The original link on the Code One Magazine website seems to be taken down, so I'm glad I saved a copy:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uCCesvtFWfHcS7H7k5yK27JhTO5Itwk6/view?usp=sharing

[ruddy122]

Cool


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[ruddy122]

Another cool article is how F-35 flight controls work from the Chief Lockheed Test Pilot

Another Code One creation


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[GGTharos]

 

47 minutes ago, Elysian Angel said:

Which is why I didn't do it prior to reading Semper Viper. I figured the technology must have improved...

 

Not at all - but, how heavily you brake also has an impact on how much heating - but the fact remains that you're storing this energy in the brakes, so then you reduce the 'normal braking' capacity at the end of the runway.  Anyway, that's all pretty surprising to me but he - you learn something every day. 

[ruddy122]

So basically I have too much Fuel on landing

Wheel brakes at the end

Plane still wants to fly as low as 105 knots

Fly the airplane until you come to a complete stop

I’ll try Syria from Ramat David as an IAF F-16


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