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Problems with the SU-25 difficult landing training


DougMasters

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First, community, I'd like to say that this sim is very solid and fun to play. It occurred to me to see if there was a f16 sim while I was putting together a f16 model. Now before I put the money into a HOTAS and the f16 for DCS, I wanted to see what my aptitude for learning a sim was with the keyboard on one of the freebies.


So far, I can start up the Su-25, follow waypoints and paths using the HUD, and the ADI / HSI and land it without blowing myself to bits. But when I got to the night landing training mission, there is no glide slope info on the hud as is intended for the training. Instead, I am supposed to use the two lines on the HSI, however, the lines on the HSI are not moving as described by the voiceover dude. 
I tried to search the forum, and I couldn't find it mentioned as a bug for the su-25 and was wondering if it a.) was in fact a bug or b.) Im just a stellar idiot. 

Really looking forward to going through the rest of the training missions and any info on this would be most helpful.

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You need to make sure that you hit the IAF for landing - it's quite a way out, and when you fly through that, the HSI should change to the landing bearing and direct you to the airfield and runway.

 

If you press 'next' or 'previous' on purpose or by accident, it will set the HSI to a different airfield, so it will seem totally wrong for the airfield you are at.

 

Otherwise, these missions have not been updated for a long time and bugs are common. I'll see if I can fly it in the next few days and have a look.

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15 hours ago, DougMasters said:

... when I got to the night landing training mission, there is no glide slope info on the hud as is intended for the training. Instead, I am supposed to use the two lines on the HSI, however, the lines on the HSI are not moving as described by the voiceover dude. 

 

This is described as a difficult landing mission and it is, it's at night, the runway doesn't have PRMG (Russian military ILS) and there is 5 m/s right to left cross wind i.e. In a crosswind of greater than 4-5 m/s, the brake chute is not used as it would make it practically impossible to maintain the aircraft on the runway.

 

7 hours ago, DougMasters said:

i may not have gotten close enough on account of crashing and all 😉

 

You can manually switch from Return (B3B) to Landing (NOC) mode by cycling the navigation mode "1" if needed.

 

As well as monitoring airspeed, radar altitude and the ADI - the HSI gives important guidance in this mission, the thin needle points to waypoint and the double arrow is the required course - when thin needle and course needle line up you are on the runway approach path (you may need to crab a little (nose is a little right of the desired course) due to the 5 m/s crosswind (note: I'm not sure if the HSI's thin needle is visible at night in 2.5.6 ?).

 

1Wq4EUE.jpg

 

A 3° glide slope = 50m per km i.e. at 10km altitude should be no less than 500m AGL and/or 200m AGL at the outer marker.

 

As Beslan lacks PRMG there is no ILS guidance on the HSI, however DCS's FC3 legacy code still provides raw ILS info at the LH side and top of the ADI.

 

d9VQ3SA.jpg

 

You may need to contact Beslan ATC and request landing permission to get the the runway lights turned on.

 

yBaJ4Vr.jpg

 

My typical approach to this mission is

 

• overfly Beslan at 2000 m

• turn to the downwind leg (274°) and fly outbound

• turn to final (94°) at ~20 km

• follow instrument guidance / descend to 500 m

• while inbound, contact ATC i.e. to turn on the runway lights

• follow ILS guidance until visual of runway lights.

• correct approach as req'ed and land visually

• After touchdown, brake using air and wheel brakes, do not use the chute due to the crosswind.

• DH - 200m and not visual, overfly the runway and go-around

(you'll likely have to cycle the Nav mode ("1") to get back to landing mode)

 

OBVLqch.jpg

 

RxIGHzO.jpg


Edited by Ramsay
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17 minutes ago, Ramsay said:

This is described as a difficult landing mission and it is, it's at night, the runway doesn't have PRMG (Russian military ILS) and there is 5 m/s right to left cross wind i.e. In a crosswind of greater than 4-5 m/s, the brake chute is not used as it would make it practically impossible to maintain the aircraft on the runway.

...

My typical approach to this mission is

 

• overfly Beslan at 2000 m

• turn to the downwind leg (274°) and fly outbound

• turn to final (94°) at ~20 km

• follow instrument guidance / descend to 500 m

• contact ATC

• follow ILS guidance until visual of runway lights.

• correct approach as req'ed and land visually

• DH - 200m and not visual, overfly the runway and go-around

(you'll likely have to cycle the Nav mode ("1") to get back to landing mode)

...

 

 


Very valuable post, I will save it in case I ever got back to the Su-25T, as I was never able to nail this mission back when I was a noob .. thanks a lot for sharing this 🙂

 

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5 hours ago, Ramsay said:

 

 

 

 

 

d9VQ3SA.jpg

 

 

 

yBaJ4Vr.jpg

 

 

 

 

RxIGHzO.jpg

 

First I'd like to say thank you, this will be a wonderful help once i've had the time to thoroughly digest it. But, my noggin is still stuck on one fine point.  These are the two instructions it gives me regarding not having the ILS indicators on the HUD, in keeping within spirit of the exercise, I would like to understand the heck he is saying. 
image.pngimage.png

I see the dashed cross and the lines but I don't see them moving as described here. I did see the air strip as I flew right over it and to be frank, now that i've passed over it a couple times I am fairly confident that with everything you provided I could touch down, crash a dozen times and just get the feel for it. But do you know what the dude is taking about here?

Sorry i didn't see the pictures so fuzzy. 

"as we get closer to the airfield I should also mention that not all airfields have Russian ILS, as we had in the last lesson. Airfields that do, include Mozdok, Krymsk, Maykop and Krasnodar-Center. Being that Beslan does not have this, you will not get the HUD ILS indications.
However if you look down at your HSI, you will notice a dashed cross int he center and both solid vertical and horizontal lines. The dashed lines are fixed and represent optimal glideslope and localizer position for the solid lines.

If the glideslope bar is below the dashed line, you are above glideslope. If it is above the dashed line, you are under glideslope.

If the localizer line is left of center, you need to fly to the left. If the localizer is to the right of center, you need to fly to the right. You always fly to the needle"


Edited by DougMasters
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7 minutes ago, DougMasters said:

These are the two instructions it gives me regarding not having the ILS indicators on the HUD, in keeping within spirit of the exercise, I would like to understand the heck he is saying. 

"as we get closer to the airfield I should also mention that not all airfields have Russian ILS, as we had in the last lesson. Airfields that do, include Mozdok, Krymsk, Maykop and Krasnodar-Center. Being that Beslan does not have this, you will not get the HUD ILS indications.
However if you look down at your HSI, you will notice a dashed cross in the center and both solid vertical and horizontal lines. The dashed lines are fixed and represent optimal glideslope and localizer position for the solid lines.

If the glideslope bar is below the dashed line, you are above glideslope. If it is above the dashed line, you are under glideslope.

If the localizer line is left of center, you need to fly to the left. If the localizer is to the right of center, you need to fly to the right. You always fly to the needle"

 

 

IIRC the HSI worked like that many versions ago (perhaps early on, when DCS first updated to 1.5.x) but the behaviour changed and the mission text/audio has never been updated.

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I just flew that mission - no problems at all with it.

 

Okay, that's not quite true - after the initial talk by Wags with the info, I never heard him again and I guess that was a bug, but I had zero issues going on through WP2 and 3 and then with the landing - all the instruments behaved as they should.

 

Good luck.


Edited by Brixmis

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@brixmis

 

When you say all instruments behaved as you should, do you mean the above described "dashed cross and solid lines" on the HSI giving the glideslope info?

An above poster says they believe this no longer works as described in the training, and I don't see them moving at all on the HSI. This is on the night landing mission

Per the above advice i'm abandoning using the HSI for any glideslope info.

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9 hours ago, Brixmis said:

Okay, that's not quite true - after the initial talk by Wags with the info, I never heard him again and I guess that was a bug, but I had zero issues going on through WP2 and 3 and then with the landing - all the instruments behaved as they should.

 

The mission text and audio describe using the HSI's PRMG guidance bars to land at an incompatible ILS equipped runway,  that anomaly was removed prior to DCS 1.2.16 (the oldest version I have installed).

 

Here is a youtube video from 21st Jan 2014 of how the HSI's guidance used to work (the bars are visible at 3 min 18 sec).

 


Edited by Ramsay
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