Golo Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 (edited) DLC check can not be performed during startup checklist, because it will not actuate. From NATOPS 01-F14AAP-1 checklists: 27. EMERGENCY WING SWEEP handle — 20° 28. MASTER RESET push button — Depress 29. External lights — Check 30. Flaps and slats — DN 31. Flight controls — Cycle 32. DLC — Check (Unable, can not actuate inboard spoilers with DLC button, interestingly enough horizontal tails do shift with DLC input if DLC was activated, its just the spoilers that wont pop up) 33. ANTI SKID SPOILER BK switch — SPOILER BK 34. Spoilers and throttles — Check (if DLC was not engaged moving throttles from idle will retract all spoilers, if DLC was engaged which we can not see now moving throttles from idle will retract outboard spoilers, inboard ones will remain in 17° up position - can be cleared by actuating DLC again or by advancing throttles to mil) Note: Also as a side note, if you have flaps up and spoiler brake switch in position other than OFF, inboard spoilers will pop up (correct), but moving stick lateraly will not actuate outboard spoilers, which it should regardless of spoiler brake switch and/or flaps position, at least to my knowledge. OK scratch that, that is correct. Edited December 18, 2020 by Golo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 As per HB manual (which would rather use proper NATOPS): Quote DLC - Check. Verify horizontal tail shift with DLC input. http://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/procedures.html#poststart Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M HOTAS FC3, F-14A/B, F-15E CA SC NTTR, PG, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golo Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 And your point is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Golo said: And your point is? That on DLC check you should indeed verify only horizontal tail shift with DLC input. Which you did confirm so I see no bug here. Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M HOTAS FC3, F-14A/B, F-15E CA SC NTTR, PG, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golo Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 44 minutes ago, draconus said: That on DLC check you should indeed verify only horizontal tail shift with DLC input. Which you did confirm so I see no bug here. Yes I did check the tail movement, but inboard spoilers are supposed to pop up on pressing the DLC button on the stick so you can actually verify that they are working, not just the tail movement. What would be the point of tail movement if the spoilers are not actuating with DLC imput, I would reject that plane after that kind of check, cos I would be unsure if it would operate during landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sLYFa Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Thats not true. DLC should deploy with flaps down and DLC button pressed on the ground too. Did you have your spoiler brake switch in any position other then off? 1 i5-8600k @4.9Ghz, 2080ti , 32GB@2666Mhz, 512GB SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golo Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 I had flaps DOWN, spoiler brake switch OFF. Inboard spoilers are not actuating on DLC check, just the tail movement, that is why I posted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sLYFa Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Just tested and indeed, DLC does not work with weight on wheels which is incorrect, see this. 1 i5-8600k @4.9Ghz, 2080ti , 32GB@2666Mhz, 512GB SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvroLanc Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Can confirm this. Pretty annoying unfortunately, since it’s worked correctly since release. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustBelt Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Also confirm. Up until last update DLC would extend when on the ground with the wings forward and flaps down. Doesn't now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juvat22 Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 jap, confirmed. looked half an hour if the problem is just me or my controller´s. thanks for that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvroLanc Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 Gents, we might have been a bit premature. The DLC does work if you select Gear Down and Spoiler Brk on (Both or Anti-skid), then bump the thrust off idle slightly to check Spoiler Brk operation, hold the slight thrust, now DLC on ground works and can be checked. Not sure if this is exactly as intended, but it satisfies my OCD for the moment. Could be an intentional and realistic change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattag08 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 The spoiler brakes should close if the throttle is advanced, so this is backwards of the correct behavior. Flying the DCS: F-14B from Heatblur Simulations with Carrier Strike Group 2 and the VF-154 Black Knights! I also own: Ka-50 2, A-10C, P-51D, UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F-86F, CA, Mig-15bis, Mig-21bis, F/A-18C, L-39, F-5E, AV-8B, AJS-37, F-16C, Mig-19P, JF-17, C-101, and CEII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvroLanc Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 3 hours ago, mattag08 said: The spoiler brakes should close if the throttle is advanced, so this is backwards of the correct behavior. Yeah they should, and still do. The spoiler brake operation is still correct. it’s just that the only way to check DLC operation on ground is now with a small off-idle thrust applied. Still don’t know if this is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golo Posted December 23, 2020 Author Share Posted December 23, 2020 (edited) Its incorrect. Nowhere in NATOPS its says that DLC only works with "antiskid spoiler brakes" switch engaged. In fact its specifically says in pre-land descend checklist for CV landing that "antiskid spoiler brake" has to be OFF, and it also says to use DLC on CV landing. This is the only requirement for DLC to work: 2.22.6 Direct Lift Control. During landing approaches, the spoilers and horizontal stabilizers can be controlled simultaneously to provide vertical glidepath correction without changing engine power setting or angle of attack. Only the inboard spoilers are used for DLC. Before DLC can be engaged, the following conditions are required: 1. Flaps down greater than 25°. 2. Throttles less than MIL power. 3. Inboard spoilers operational. 4. Pitch B and Yaw B computer segregations operational. 5. Operable combined hydraulic pump. Edit: Any word from HB? I really hope it will get sorted out for that coming hotfix. Edited December 23, 2020 by Golo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skysurfer Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 The spoiler brk logic was mostly fixed now as far as I can tell but the DLC still doesnt operate on the ground. It's pretty minor and no one really "checks" that but it used to work in the past. Guess someway down the road HB received some false/confusing information which made them change the whole spoiler/DLC operation logic on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skysurfer Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 Just ran some tests. The spoiler brake logic is correct now, DLC seems to work on the ground too but only with flaps full and power not in idle. This might be correct if you look at some field and carrier landings. With the spoiler brk. active DLC will only be active with power not in idle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golo Posted December 24, 2020 Author Share Posted December 24, 2020 6 hours ago, Skysurfer said: Just ran some tests. The spoiler brake logic is correct now, DLC seems to work on the ground too but only with flaps full and power not in idle. This might be correct if you look at some field and carrier landings. With the spoiler brk. active DLC will only be active with power not in idle. Thats not in conditions that are required for DLC operation, so I still consider it bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat creason Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 This one should be fixed in the next patch. 2 Systems Engineer & FM Modeler Heatblur Simulations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golo Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) On 1/23/2021 at 6:28 AM, fat creason said: This one should be fixed in the next patch. Thx for the fix, I have one more issue/question about spoilers operation. Right now if you are landing with flaps down, DLC engaged, and antiskid spoiler brake switch in position other than OFF (field landing), after touchdown (power - IDLE) DLC stays active (priority) and spoilers wont pop up until DLC is manually disengaged. I cant find any direct info about this, but I dont think that is correct. I think if you have antiskid spoiler brake switch in other than OFF position, with WOW, it should have priority over DLC. Im not exactly sure of this but logically it makes sense to me. Other than that spoilers now function correctly as far as I can tell. Edited January 31, 2021 by Golo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skysurfer Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 22 minutes ago, Golo said: Thx for the fix, I have one more issue/question about spoilers operation. Right now if you are landing with flaps down, DLC engaged, and antiskid spoiler brake switch in position other than OFF (field landing), after touchdown (power - IDLE) DLC stays active (priority) and spoilers wont pop up until DLC is manually disengaged. I cant find any direct info about this, but I dont think that is correct. I think if you have antiskid spoiler brake switch in other than OFF position, with WOW, it should have priority over DLC. Im not exactly sure of this but logically it makes sense to me. Other than that spoilers now function correctly as far as I can tell. Yep, that is a new issue now, DLC on the gound overrides the spoiler brake, which it clearly shouldn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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