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DCS: AH-64D Discussion Thread


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On 2/22/2021 at 9:59 PM, ruprecht said:

All those hours flying LB2 with the 404th in the 90s, and I've been waiting for a Longbow to be done by DCS since Flexman's Combat Helo sadly went dark. Bring it on and thanks ED!

I was in the 404th! I think I went by "Ghostrider" back then since that was my unit name in the Army. Anyway Flex always called me the "Pig Farmer" because I preferred to fly the Black Hawk.

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2 hours ago, Wychmaster said:

 

Not really, you can fly with a twist stick. However, without pedals and a stick extension it gets a lot harder to hold a perfect hover.

 

Well as someone who tried flying helo's with a twist-stick, and quickly progressed to pedals: You CAN do it with a twist stick, but why would you want to? 

I'd have to go with fargo007, you're not gonna have a good time with a twist stick. I don't know maybe the AH64D has some kind of auto-hover feature that would make this easier, but the really simple hands-on helicopters like HiP or the Huey really do require pedals for maximum enjoyment. 


Edited by Lurker
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vor 41 Minuten schrieb Lurker:

 

Well as someone who tried flying helo's with a twist-stick, and quickly progressed to pedals: You CAN do it with a twist stick, but why would you want to? 

I'd have to go with fargo007, you're not gonna have a good time with a twist stick. I don't know maybe the AH64D has some kind of auto-hover feature that would make this easier, but the really simple hands-on helicopters like HiP or the Huey really do require pedals for maximum enjoyment. 

 

 

The answer to why is mainly : Budget

 

The question was if one "desperately need" pedals to fly a heli or if it is doable with a twist stick. I started flying the huey with a twist stick. It was fun enough and definately doable, but a lot harder than with pedals and extension. Luckily I have a relatively high hobby budget and baught me some good equipment, but not everybody can afford that.

 

So flying with a twist stick is far from being optimal, but better than flying no helo at all.

 

I can also imagine, that the apache is way easier to fly this way than the huey due to its flight assistance systems. Maybe not as stable as the Ka-50, but easier than the Huey 😉

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There's a pretty wide scope of intent here, and everyone's goals may be different.  

 

Can you fly with a twist stick?  Of course.  

 

But if you are serious about helicopters, want as realistic of an experience as possible, and expect to perform to a certain standard, you are going to want pedals. 

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Never tested pedals and my point of view could change the moment I get pedals but I am totally enjoying every helicopter (apart from the gazelle) with the twist stick (and now using the wheel on the side of my twcs throttle because the twisty axis stopped working). Hovering is indeed hard but I just about manage to do that.

 

I also must add that at first I hated helos, perhaps with pedals I wouldn't have hated them as much, but with time I got used to the twisty stick and now they are literally my favorite aircraft to simply fly around, even more so than the f/a-18 or f16 that inherently don't require much rudder input in flight.

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Agree with Fargo. Flying choppers IRL or in DCS is a lot more demanding than flying a fixed wing. You know what one says: airplanes are meant to stay up in the air; helicopters are meant to fall out of it.. Those extra skills required compared to flying a jet, this is where all the fun is. Every control you move (and there are 4 of them, collective, throttle, cyclic, rudder) will require correction on all the other ones at the same time (well, maybe not the throttle, it'll stay at full power all the time). I understand the investment in a rudder is very significant and I am not going to blame anyone who does not want to invest this amount of money in what is, after all, a video game. But you'll hardly appreciate a chopper in DCS, or master it, without a real rudder, no matter how good you think you are with a twist grip. Even more than you can't get rid, afaik, of the centering mechanism of a twist grip, a centering that doesn't occur in a helicopter. I can imagine how painful it might be to have to maintain all the time some rudder input while flying. It most likely also throw everything off whenever you you are moving the cyclic. 

I suppose the AH64D is a modern enough chopper that it will get some SAS system that will ease the workload, a bit like the Ka50. But for the current choppers in DCS like Huey, Gaz and Mi-8, it is a different story...

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i  would actually prefer to fly with my older saitek X55  or hell even a Logitech 3d pro.

 

Hotas warthog is just too stiff for helo flying. I cant stand it.  


Edited by Kev2go

 

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7 hours ago, Kev2go said:

Hotas warthog is just too stiff for helo flying. I cant stand it.  

That's why I ripped out the evil spring from my TM Warthog a week after purchasing the HOTAS. Ideally, you could visit a mate who has such joystick w/o a spring and see if you like it for fixed-wing A/C and only if you find it OK, "mutilate" your own. Of course such surgery is reversible, provided you're not as lazy as I am 😉


I didn't have such opportunity, but a) choppers were the thing that brought me to DCS and b) I don't have a problem with driving fixed wings with such loose joystick. For me it's like "meh, whatever". For choppers it's a big improvement, though.
Just keep in mind poeple vary, so I don't know what works best for you.

 

Oh, and if you're planning to buy an extension, especially a longer one, the spring should stay there.

 

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I picked up a "Weaker" spring which works great for me.  Do a quick search for "Green Spring video by Sahaj" which is a replacement for the stiff stock spring.  Might be an option.

 

Oh, he does stronger springs as well if you want long extensions.


Edited by Sarge55
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On 3/8/2021 at 5:40 PM, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

Do you desperately need a set of rudder-pedals for flying heli's or is it do-able with a twist stick ? 

 

 

You can fly with a twist grip, but it will be so much more difficult, some manoeuvres will feel more or less impossible.

Try helicopters in XPlane, the flight model is really good there as well, see if you can manage them (you can get XP demo if you don't want to spend the money). Then decide if a twist grip is enoguh for you.

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I'm managing-ish to fly the Huey with a very good desktop stick and using the keyboard for collective and anti-torque. I think I can hover reasonably well-ish but it's still ham-fisted, and can't really position the helicopter precisely.

 

The set-up makes it basically impossible to make precise corrections to either, and I can't simultaneously put in cyclic and collective, or anti-torque and collective.

 

I can also do it with the Hip, only transitioning from forward flight to a hover is incredibly difficult, and landing near impossible unless I'm already in a ground effect hover close to the ground.

 

I did have an X52 Pro for my old-set up but it was playing up and that PC died (not that it would work for me now anyway, it was built in 8 years ago).

 

EDIT: Just did 2 free flight missions in the Hip and I actually managed to land it!


Edited by Northstar98
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On 3/9/2021 at 8:25 PM, BaD CrC said:

well, maybe not the throttle, it'll stay at full power all the time

Negative, the governor or FADEC changes throttle with every control input you make on the other 3 controls. With every input you are changing the angle of a rotating blade and thus the amount of torque required from the engine. If it stays at full power you will overspeed your drivetrain and rotors very soon.

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2 hours ago, ghost84 said:

Negative, the governor or FADEC changes throttle with every control input you make on the other 3 controls. With every input you are changing the angle of a rotating blade and thus the amount of torque required from the engine. If it stays at full power you will overspeed your drivetrain and rotors very soon.

A little addition to how it works on the AH-64 the "throttles" have 3 modes OFF, GND and FLY. At FLY the FADEC (4x ECUs, 2 per engine, one in control, one as a backup and checking the primary) attempt to keep the NP (Power Turbine speed) and thus the NR (Rotor speed) at the nominal RPM (eg 100%). Also there are "Collective anticipators" that detect demands on the collective and ramp up torque so that the NP and thus NR doesn't "Droop" when hauling the handle to your armpit because some muppet has put up a new mobile phone mast and neglected to pop it on a chart.

 

Listen to an old Lynx maneuvering and you'll hear the slight changes in NR (Droop) as the old FCU (analogue Fuel Control Unit and no collective anticipators) fights to maintain demand.

 

These flying egg beaters sure have come a long way these days!

 

Rotor over speeds quite often happen when you dump collective quickly or when in autorotation. This doesn't have a huge impact on the drive train as there is minimal torque but stresses the strap packs (AH-64 equivalent of tie bars that absord centrifugal loads).

 

Drive train damage can occur when pulling too much torque. Particularly at sea level, in temperate climes and especially when you have a couple of engines meant for a Merlin! (Silly brits do love dropping overpowered engines into foreign airframes, Tucano, cough, cough) 🤣

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  • 1 month later...
18 hours ago, blunt_waco said:

When is the pre-order happening and the Early Access release?

Whenever they are ready. You won't get an answer to that at this stage. Don't worry, you'll know once the time is there.


Edited by ArjenHVA
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On 3/15/2021 at 11:58 AM, Meathawk said:

Hey everybody,

 

just wanted to point out that there is a new Facebook Group: "DCS AH-64 Apache" here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/813182775896426


We are well over 700 Members and everybody is welcome to join!

 

Ist möglicherweise ein Bild von Luftfahrzeug und außen

 

Greetings "Hawk"

 

Awesome idea, did you guys every considered opening up a discord server for the Non-Facebook people?

 

I run the DCS F-14 discord with well over 1000+ Members now and can help you out setting it up ;)

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DCS F-14 Tomcat Alley Discord Server:

 

 

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vor 20 Stunden schrieb Lt.Seahawk:

 

Awesome idea, did you guys every considered opening up a discord server for the Non-Facebook people?

 

I run the DCS F-14 discord with well over 1000+ Members now and can help you out setting it up 😉

 

Yeah I could do that - NP 👍

 

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@Glow non-Facebook and non-Discord ... 🤔
What are those ppl? Newspaper ppl? 😂 


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  • 2 weeks later...
39 minutes ago, NWGJulian said:

first week of may is here. where can i throw my money at?

 

Realistically, I'd give it another month.

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Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

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