Major concern about ED's disregard of the MP community for the past year (state of missiles).

[Skysurfer]

At first I did not want to create yet another overly-dramatic and critical topic like this but at this point I would also appreciate some feedback and mainly see what other people think about this. Since the beginning of this year ED have been working on the new missile API and improved AMRAAM aerodynamics and guidence. In one iteration of DCS they were actually fairly decent again but for the better part of 2020 radar guided missiles were completely broken or in a WIP state, changing with every update making you wonder how to employ them and whether they would even guide or not. Given that most of the DCS MP PvP and PvE community are required to be on the open beta branch I find it compeltely unacceptable that the very essence of a modern air combat simulator/game has been broken or not working properly for such a long time. Pre-rework (2.5.6) missiles were at least usable and reliable to some extent and the performance did not change every single patch - Sparrows in particular pretty much behaved fairly close to the charts (7F) and guided fairly reliably - now those have been broken for quite a long time in various patches, including the latest one, even though no one really asked for any AIM-7 changes or upgrades specifically - yet those can be found in numerous recent changelogs. Me personally as well as many others I know have basically "quit" any sort of online air to air flying since we don't find any enjoyment in being "beta testers" and finding out that missile X or missile Y is broken or doesn't guide properly this patch during our sortie. ED should properly test each build and make sure that missiles at least work correctly 90% of the time and don't just go stupid off the rail, not receive any guidence commands or go into some weird lag pursuit like the Sparrows now do. All we ask for is the utmost basic form of Quality Assurance when it comes to pushing out patches. I understand that there can be a bad patch and things that slip through but I don't understand how this can go on for over a year now and not seem to be nearing any finishing line in terms of maturity.

 

At this point I would like to ask ED - what is the current state of the missile API, when will it be officially "done" and when will all main missiles get the CFD rework (akin of the AMRAAM and AIM54 by HB) and be on the newest API? Can we have a guarantee that after this is done there will be no major changes or constant tinkering with particular missiles? Wasn't said API and final AMRAAM iteration supposed to be done by the end of this year at the very latest ? What about the R-27R/T/ER/ET and R-77 rework, applying the same CFD treatment and PN model? I find this to be fairly worrying and make me not play the game as much anymore since there is always the thought of "well, this doesn't work/is bugged currently anyway".

 

Would love to also hear other people's opinion on this.  

Edited December 19, 2020 by Skysurfer

[NineLine]

Dear Skysurfer,

 

I really can't give you a solid date on when missiles or the missile API will be complete, it is literally rocket science, and its not just about the missiles themselves, but pulling the code out of the spaghetti, and redoing them in a meaningful manner and as realistic as governments around the world will be comfortable with.

 

I cannot give you guarantees that Open Beta will not see any major changes or 'tinkering' either as missiles are released, its nearly impossible to assume every single situation can be accounted for with any number of internal testing. Stable will always be better for this, but I understand the issue here, but I cant offer anything beyond this.

 

Chizh has already stated Ru missiles are being worked on, but understand that this is a unique skill, with uniquely experienced and knowledgeable people, we don't have a team of 100s working on these, it takes time through research, development, and implementation, and not only A2A, but rockets, ballistic missiles, etc.

 

To suggest that we have somehow disregarded the MP community is disappointing, and a slight knock against the hard working men and women on the development team, and nothing can be farther from the truth, because something takes time, doesn't mean its not important to all of us at Eagle Dynamics. This is truly our passion, and because we choose to be thorough and build something complex and realistic shouldn't be mistaken for anything else. 

 

Thanks!

[Limpack]

Goes on open beta servers.

 

Is surprised that it's beta.

 

Flawless logic.

[Skysurfer]

So, as of the latest update overall missile performance is worse than ever (ECM effects and chaff). Well job, great done.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Skysurfer

[Mars Exulte]

Oh, a major concern thread, it's been at least 2-3 days since we had one of those! ''My pet peeve isn't being sufficiently prioritised or done the way I like, so I will use some dramatic language to elevate my importance!''

[Skysurfer]

10 minutes ago, zhukov032186 said:

Oh, a major concern thread, it's been at least 2-3 days since we had one of those! ''My pet peeve isn't being sufficiently prioritised or done the way I like, so I will use some dramatic language to elevate my importance!''

 

This literally affects everyone? 

[Mizzy]

21 hours ago, Skysurfer said:

 

This literally affects everyone? 

No it doesn't.

[probad]

it doesnt even affect mp players you just learn to adapt

around 2016 or something there was a period that missiles especially heaters did their absolute best to miss. it was actually a good time because you would get into gunfights instead.

 

winners stay winners

[wilbur81]

On 12/19/2020 at 4:48 PM, NineLine said:

This is truly our passion, and because we choose to be thorough and build something complex and realistic shouldn't be mistaken for anything else. 

 

Thanks!

And that passion and thoroughness shows! The complexity of DCS astonishes me, but it is time and money well spent. Bugs will always annoy, especially when it affects "my favorite jet or missile"... but we are still very appreciative of your work and the enormous task you've gotten yourselves into.  Keep up the good work!

[dorianR666]

On 12/19/2020 at 11:51 PM, Limpack said:

Goes on open beta servers.

 

Is surprised that it's beta.

 

Flawless logic.

Its literally exactly the same on stable...

Edited February 3, 2021 by dorianR666

[TAW_derdoe]

While i am certainly not 100% happy about the current state of the missiles and their synchronisation over the network, i think that there was vast improvement done over the last few months. So while missiles are not were they could be right now, i feel like that there were a lot of big steps towards the right direction. What bothers me the most is when missiles go completely out of desync and kill you.

 

It always depends on which end of the missile you are, the firing or the receiving one

 

I think in terms of its physics simulation is probably the most complex software in the gaming industry. And we are seeing changes to this complex physics system on a regular basis where code complexity is probably beyond any realistic chance of being manageable. The flight models in DCS are in my eyes matched by no other game.

Edited February 3, 2021 by TAW_derdoe