SU-27 and J-11 slower to regain airspeed after maneuvering..

[BBCRF]

1 hour ago, stefasaki said:

I did that test with a clean aircraft, meaning that a slighly better result was expected. 

 

What we really would need is an official acceleration chart...

 

таких диаграмм пока показать не могу

[stefasaki]

2 hours ago, BBCRF said:

таких диаграмм пока показать не могу

That's understandable. Is there any high altitude acceleration number that we might crosscheck with DCS? 

[BBCRF]

в игре вообще все не так

[nighthawk2174]

  

On 1/26/2021 at 11:24 AM, bies said:

 

This are FC3 planes, there is lot of simplifications. Still i think they did some great job given they are low fidelity planes for extremally affordable price.

 

Consider just this one thing:

F-15 had been intentionally designed with requirement to have four semi-recess low-drag fuselage pylons, non-universal (they could carry AIM-7 missile only, and later AMRAAM) but they offered far lower drag increase when carrying a missile - semi-recessed inside the fuselage and within uniform fuselage aerodynamic boundary layer, this missiles had far smaller drag index, especially backward missile being additionally completely shielded by the forward missile.

 

 

(Other F-X competitors - North American and Fairchild shown below - also had to include similar solution)

 

 

In DCS if you put the missile i.e AIM-120 on semi-recess low drag fulelage pylon - it doesn't matter.

On forward (YELLOW) or even backward station (GREEN) AIM-120 still has full drag index exactly identical as AIM-120 on normal full drag under wing pylon (RED).

You can test by yourself.

 

What does it mean? If ED wanted to make F-15C close to real life chart with weapon they had to decrease clean aircraft drag to compensate for excesive weapon drag in semi-recess stations (4 big missiles) which are adding far more drag in DCS than they do IRL.

 

 

In full fidelity i.e. F/A-18C they are adressing such things and drag of the missile on semi-recess fuselage pylon is considerably smaller than under wing pylon. Similar situation with wing-end pylons.

Thay are still tuning this things, there are still some stations to include in different modules as i've noticed testing it from patch to patch but there is definitely work being done.

 

 

 

Just to get the F15 out of the way compared in game to the -1 manual we have.  Below is for a clean aircraft, 75% fuel, 40000ft starting from 250kts indicated.

Well within margin of error

 

Additionally the video is of very little value as we don't know the air-temperature or pressure.  For example as shown in the 15-1 this can lead to big differences.

Edited February 3, 2021 by nighthawk2174

[stefasaki]

@nighthawk2174 I think the point they were trying to make about the f-15 was the fact that accurate drag indexes aren't taken into account, nothing to do with the acceleration of a clean F-15C, for which all kinds of charts are available and we are mostly sure that, at least for a standard day, the in-game performance is correct. There are minor errors anyway, but nothing big enough to be game changing like for the flanker. An example is that the F-15C in DCS reaches a maximum Mach number of 2.606 regardless of temperature, and that's not correct, only at very low temperatures it should be possible to reach that speed. On the other side I have a feeling that the Eagle doesn't perform as it should at very low temperatures in DCS, as its acceleration and climbing ability aren't influenced much. But this again is very marginal and the game is accurate enough for the eagle really. The correct drag indexes for the various pylons would be a nice addition though (if they are really wrong in the game).

 

The problem we are discussing here concerns the acceleration of the su-27, for which no official charts are available. The effect of temperature on acceleration is significant, but it usually is in the order of 15-30 % for every 20 °C of difference (when not close to the maximum speed in that particular condition). The discrepancy we have here at mach 1.1-1.3 is in the order of 150%. An error is clearly present. The video is just there to prove that something is wrong indeed, it's not meant to provide data to be used in modeling. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by stefasaki

[Cmptohocah]

On 2/3/2021 at 9:05 PM, stefasaki said:

...The video is just there to prove that something is wrong indeed, it's not meant to provide data to be used in modeling. 

 

Can't the developers at least match this part from the video? I mean, it's better then nothing. I agree it's little to go from, but it would bring us one step closer to proper flight performance. Or am I wrong?

[GGTharos]

They don't need to match the video, they need to review that part of the envelope.  ED has data for the Su-27, they didn't create the FM by guessing.

[Teknetinium]

I really hope ED look in to F-18/F-16 fly longer distance then F15/Flanker since F-18 came out witch should be only possible in DCS WORLD. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Teknetinium

[Breakshot]

Can we have ED look at air temp effects on engine thrust for some of the F types?

F16 doesn't suffer at all from warm weather, while the effects on Redfor AC is like driving a loaded truck vs a sports car.

Or maybe the idea here is that Russians made planes for the winter only?

Отправлено с моего STV100-2 через Tapatalk

[Coxy_99]

SU-33 needs checking as well 32c full mil not even a full payload BF-109K4 goes faster................................

[BBCRF]

On 05.02.2021 at 23:55, GGTharos said:

Им не нужно сопоставлять видео, им нужно просмотреть эту часть конверта. У ЭД есть данные по Су-27, они не строили ЧМ наугад.

Модель настроена на угад, даже близко нет что может реальный самолет

[plaiskool]

interresting topic here....
Yes i can feel it, especially vs 2000/Hornet....i feel like i'm fighting against Xwing if we compare thrust acceleration and turn rate.
I will get interest into this topic.
 

[Yo-Yo]

On 2/7/2021 at 12:22 AM, BBCRF said:

Модель настроена на угад, даже близко нет что может реальный самолет

Prove please your words or they  are cheap noise.

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

What about the video though?

[BBCRF]

4 hours ago, Yo-Yo said:

Подтвердите пожалуйста свои слова или они дешевый шум.

Маневренные характеристики, разгонные, завышенный вес, глохнущие движки в перевороте дальше продолжать?

[Yo-Yo]

18 hours ago, BBCRF said:

Маневренные характеристики, разгонные, завышенный вес, глохнущие движки в перевороте дальше продолжать?

It's only a set of empty words, not an evidence. Ridiculous.

[BBCRF]

2 minutes ago, Yo-Yo said:

Это всего лишь набор пустых слов, а не очевидное. Смешной.

Для Су-27 тоже самое

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

I'd still like to see an explanation on the Su-27s trans sonic acceleration disparity vs the video @Chizh

Is this possibly a part of the FM that is guarded?

Or guesstimated?

[NATOsimulator]

Il 1/4/2021 at 07:04, TaxDollarsAtWork ha scritto:

I'd still like to see an explanation on the Su-27s trans sonic acceleration disparity vs the video @Chizh

Is this possibly a part of the FM that is guarded?

Or guesstimated?

Don't expect too much, this is not a NATO aircraft 

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

On 2/5/2021 at 3:55 PM, GGTharos said:

They don't need to match the video, they need to review that part of the envelope.  ED has data for the Su-27, they didn't create the FM by guessing.

Its been a while I think ED should review both F-15 Pylon drag (seems to be an over all DCS issues those pylons) and this issue with the Flanker

Edited March 22, 2022 by TaxDollarsAtWork

[okopanja]

SInce last update I noticed shaking of J-11A, flying straight in line at 400-800km/h at low speed.

No such shake before, but I would need to confirm by removing some axis mappings (to rule out shaking due to zooming)

Also note there were some texture changes we did not read in log about...

Edited March 22, 2022 by okopanja

[dundun92]

I can confirm, there is a new slight cockpit shake effect in the Flanker this patch

[Ironhand]

People are noting the shaking in a number of aircraft after this patch. So I suspect that it’s not limited to only one or two.

[[ED]Ben]

The shaking is a bug releated to having turbulence in the mission. We have it reported. Thanks!

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

On 3/22/2022 at 3:26 PM, [ED]Obi said:

The shaking is a bug releated to having turbulence in the mission. We have it reported. Thanks!

This is not the only bug this thread is about though