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BS3 still happening?


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Vague law is the largest impediment you can have, as information can be designated as 'impacting security' at any time.  Stop making stupid things up about a law being an impediment or not.  Laws are written to make people outlaws, not to determine what weapons can be simulated for you.  No one cares what you see or don't see as being a problem.

 

ED has precisely zero reason to take any risk whatsoever for your entertainment.

 


Edited by GGTharos
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49 minutes ago, GGTharos said:

ED has precisely zero reason to take any risk whatsoever for your entertainment.

 

 

  Pretty much. I mean, if there's even a CHANCE of trouble, they should skip it. It's a video game. It's literally not worth any risk.

 

  That said, I really hope we can get a new external model for it and the Frogfoots. Or at least fix the blue canopy.

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51 minutes ago, GGTharos said:

ED has precisely zero reason to take any risk whatsoever for your entertainment.

 

Agree. As disappointed as I was that BS3 was put on hold and being re-evaluated for legal compliance, I would gladly take a BS3 module with just refined and improved versions of existing systems. The product has been out since 2009, and IIRC BS2 didnt have any additional features in it compared to BS1, beyond bugfixes, behavior tweaks and improved textures and such.

 

I personally have no issue with paying game devs for their time and efforts if I feel the money is well spent. I understand not everyone feels this way for every module that is out there, which is why the free to play periods are nice. Allows you to determine whether a product is worth the money to spend on it, or it's not.


Edited by Raptor9
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1 hour ago, GGTharos said:

Vague law is the largest impediment you can have, as information can be designated as 'impacting security' at any time.  Stop making stupid things up about a law being an impediment or not.  Laws are written to make people outlaws, not to determine what weapons can be simulated for you.  No one cares what you see or don't see as being a problem.

 

ED has precisely zero reason to take any risk whatsoever for your entertainment.

 

 

 

Its always down to risk vs reward really. If they think the risk is low, and they can make money they will do it. If not they won't. I personally don't really begrudge them either way. But it would be nice to have more modern Russian stuff in the game, or more "early" blue stuff. That I do begrudge them since it seems like a poorly thought out business strategy IMO. Just like the whole idiocy of the comments about BVR missiles being no fun vs dogfighting and nerfing them so you get to the merge more. Well, turns out if you have "Earlier" fighters that whole situation solves itself rather organically.

 

 


Edited by Harlikwin
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4 hours ago, GGTharos said:

ED has precisely zero reason to take any risk whatsoever for your entertainment.

 

And WE have precisely ZERO reason to buy from ED if they don't produce anything we want to buy.

 

It works both ways, Tharos.

 

That new "law" is beyond vague.  Looks like Putin just want's an excuse to go after anyone he doesn't like.  Russia looks like it's becoming a Dictatorship.

 

I doubt if it matters what ED does, because if Putin ever wants to come after them, he can probably do whatever he wants no matter what laws are on the books, or what permissions ED had procured.  ED has my sympathy.

 

As a business, ED is just going to have to do what they can, to save their business.  It's really in their hands.

 

Not that America is doing much better right now.  Looks like Biden and Congress are going batshit crazy.  I'm just waiting for Texas, and the States between them and Florida to secede.

 

Republic of Texas!


Edited by 3WA
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7 minutes ago, 3WA said:

And WE have precisely ZERO reason to buy from ED if they don't produce anything we want to buy.

 

It works both ways, Tharos.

 

Not really.  You're making demands that they refuse to meet because of a reason that you make irrelevant speculation on.   On the other hand, if you don't want to buy, that's fine, there are plenty of other customers buying things from ED.   They don't need to take this risk because you want Iglas.

 

And frankly, it's not even about Putin - even looking like you're skirting the law can and will immediately turn off cooperating entities or certain types of customers.   ED is not just in the gaming business, and I figure those commercial customers or cooperating entities outweigh your contribution to the pot by a significant amount, either directly or indirectly.

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I sort of wonder about the legal mechanics of it.

ED has stated that as a result of laws they can't make modern red air, fair enough I understand not wanting to paint a target on ones self.

 

But they have said a third party would be able to bring a module like that to DCS.

 

Let's say Deka brings us a Su-30MKK hypothetically to DCS.

What would prevent ED from getting into trouble?

 

Or is it a matter of political subtlety where lots of these things are in a grey area and 'could' be done but give the Russian government a reason to harass ED employees?

 

I think it's more the later if I am reading in-between the lines correctly.

 

 

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It basically looks like Putin ( who is behind this change in "law" ) can just basically do whatever he wants.

 

I don't think there is any "law".

 

I think ED is just being cautious, and is carefully putting out feelers with the companies that make these aircraft, on what is acceptable, and won't get them in trouble.

 

Which is a smart move on their part.  However, I can't see mid 90's level technology being "State Secrets" or simulating it damaging to Russia in any way.  They display it all prominently at their airshows.  America is WAYYY beyond this tech.  As is Russia by now.  Mainly, I just want ED to simulate REAL EO on the Shark, as they are going to need it for other aircraft anyway.

 

And like I said above, America is getting strange as well.  And Biden is acting a lot like Putin now.

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51 minutes ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

Let's say Deka brings us a Su-30MKK hypothetically to DCS.

What would prevent ED from getting into trouble?

 

Or is it a matter of political subtlety where lots of these things are in a grey area and 'could' be done but give the Russian government a reason to harass ED employees?

 

If ED didn't develop and didn't help with it, then it's not in danger of being blacklisted by any other companies.  The direct effect of the law is one thing, ED being 'sneaky' and skirting around laws could easily make other companies not want to cooperate with them.  And not just in Russia.

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11 hours ago, GGTharos said:

Vague law is the largest impediment you can have, as information can be designated as 'impacting security' at any time.  Stop making stupid things up about a law being an impediment or not.  Laws are written to make people outlaws, not to determine what weapons can be simulated for you.  No one cares what you see or don't see as being a problem.

 

ED has precisely zero reason to take any risk whatsoever for your entertainment.

 


They been developing military simulation for quite awhile, so they have been taking some kind of risk in a grater or lesser extent. There is always a risk. And they don't do it "for our entertainment", there may be a lot of reasons, but the main one is an economic reason. 

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15 hours ago, 3WA said:

Which is a smart move on their part.  However, I can't see mid 90's level technology being "State Secrets" or simulating it damaging to Russia in any way.  They display it all prominently at their airshows.  America is WAYYY beyond this tech.  As is Russia by now.  Mainly, I just want ED to simulate REAL EO on the Shark, as they are going to need it for other aircraft anyway.

 

What any of our opinions are on the matter of what should and shouldn't be reasonable to classify, is of no bearing whatsoever. 

 

I mean, have you seen the British?


Edited by Northstar98
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On 3/3/2021 at 12:57 AM, 3WA said:

The things I want to see on BS3 is a REALISTIC Shkval, FLIR, and Iglas.

 

Not being able to fly missions at night is a NO GO.

I'd like to note that the Shkval we have is a daylight sensor, with TV capabilities. No EO/IR sensor like the ones you have in modern targeting pods. So asking for more "realism" by demanding a day/night Shkval is kind of moot.

If you want night ops, load some illumination rockets, that's how it's done.

 

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17 hours ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

I sort of wonder about the legal mechanics of it.

ED has stated that as a result of laws they can't make modern red air, fair enough I understand not wanting to paint a target on ones self.

 

But they have said a third party would be able to bring a module like that to DCS.

 

Let's say Deka brings us a Su-30MKK hypothetically to DCS.

What would prevent ED from getting into trouble?

 

Or is it a matter of political subtlety where lots of these things are in a grey area and 'could' be done but give the Russian government a reason to harass ED employees?

 

I think it's more the later if I am reading in-between the lines correctly.

 

 

 

Yeah, the way its worded, it seems the info would have to flow out of russia (at least as I read it) for it to be compromising. So if Deka did a Su-30MKK not using russian sources, then I guess it might be ok?

 

I do think this is the deal with the mi23, and its also not sensitive since its no longer in Russian service.

21 hours ago, S.E.Bulba said:

Thanks, yeah legal definitions are "fun". And there are good reasons I never wanted to be a lawyer.

 

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1 hour ago, hisothiro said:

I'd like to note that the Shkval we have is a daylight sensor, with TV capabilities. No EO/IR sensor like the ones you have in modern targeting pods. So asking for more "realism" by demanding a day/night Shkval is kind of moot.

If you want night ops, load some illumination rockets, that's how it's done.

 

I think he's just asking for a Ka-50N/Sh which additionally has an IR system (maybe has LLTV too?).

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6 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

 

I think he's just asking for a Ka-50N/Sh which additionally has an IR system (maybe has LLTV too?).

You're probably right. I don't really get the "realistic" Shkval demand. Do you want an "actual" contrast-locking TV sensor? The facsimile we have in DCS works pretty well in the context of the sim. I don't think the implementation of the sensor right now is inadequate.

 

I'd also love a Ka-50Sh, but asking for a prototype of a prototype might be a stretch  😆


Edited by hisothiro

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23 minutes ago, hisothiro said:

You're probably right. I don't really get the "realistic" Shkval demand. Do you want an "actual" contrast-locking TV sensor? The facsimile we have in DCS works pretty well in the context of the sim. I don't think the implementation of the sensor right now is inadequate.

 

I'd have to do some testing to make a conclusion, it might be useful in the case of smoke dischargers to have something that actually works the way it should.

 

ED are supposedly overhauling everything IR (though details are kinda absent), but it includes improvements to IR missiles, maybe they'll improve the fidelity of track modes on TGPs - a similar thing could be done for Shkval. Obviously providing this is actually the case.

 

23 minutes ago, hisothiro said:

I'd also love a Ka-50Sh, but asking for a prototype of a prototype might be a stretch  😆

 

 

Agreed.

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

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even a simple 3d model update would be good 😞


Edited by ebabil

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2 hours ago, ebabil said:

even a simple 3d model update would be good 😞

 

I'm pretty sure that's still planned! 

I've seen it mentioned by Kate I think? I'm sure others can provide the actual source. 

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Lol, by REAL Shkval, I mean a constrast EO sensor THAT ACTUALLY WORKS.

 

Try locking a dark aircraft in the bright sky.  It can be coming straight at you.  Maybe on the 20th time you try to lock it, with the gate down to the smallest diameter you can get, it "might" lock it.  The current shkval is worthless, and is done worse than some arma trickery.

Adjusting brightness and contrast knobs does nothing.  They're just for show.

As for IR, yeah I'd like to see FLIR as well, as the Shark was an experiment, and certain of the many models made of it had FLIR.  That, and the copter that came out of it, the Ka-52, has FLIR.  Not being able to fly at night makes the Shark half-worthless.  The flare rockets are a good joke.

 

And actually, it locks too well on the ground.  Ground is basically an insta-lock.  It should have a harder time doing that because of the camo paint, and any camo netting / cover put over command posts and such.

 

Read this post to understand how the Shkval really works.  Especially the posts by Fri13, who explains it well.

 

 

 


Edited by 3WA
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On 3/4/2021 at 12:15 PM, 3WA said:

I don't think there is any "law".
 
Looks like Biden and Congress are going batshit crazy.  I'm just waiting for Texas, and the States between them and Florida to secede.
Republic of Texas!
And like I said above, America is getting strange as well.  And Biden is acting a lot like Putin now.

Going Batshit ? They have been batshit for the last 4 years...

 

If you don't believe there is a law, maybe ask "Q" why E.D. won't produce the module or give in to your demands for changes to the skhval modelling...


Edited by Weta43

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That super-vague law has already killed the BS3, and it will kill the MiG-29 if ED decides to actually try to make it. I think it's useless to keep hoping to get more modern Russian aircraft from ED, it looks like it'll be basically impossible. At least we're getting the now defunct Mi-24. Thank the Apache for its death. But I guess it could only go that way. 

Main: MiG-21bis, because pocket rockets are fun

 

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