Biga42 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Flying a mission in PG looking for the tanker, I realized that was a difference between in altitude comparing with altitude informed by the tanker. comparing with the map view, the altitude shown in the map does not match with the altitude shown in the Hornet. This mission was started in the air. See pictures attatched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svend_Dellepude Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 It's been like this forever. Not sure why though. Might be some discrepancy between real and baro altitude. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Win10 64, Asus Maximus VIII Formula, i5 6600K, Geforce 980 GTX Ti, 32 GB Ram, Samsung EVO SSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift. Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 iirc, this is because the F10 map is showing a geometric altitude as spat out by the game engine. Whereas the altimeter accounts for pressure and density change and what have you. 476th Discord | 476th Website | Swift Youtube Ryzen 5800x, RTX 4070ti, 64GB, Quest 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny Clark Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 The altitude in the Mission Editor is a magic number that represents the absolute distance between the aircraft and exact sea level. This isn't a number that has any real equivalent in the real word or gauges we have in the cockpit, as there is no such thing as an exact sea level, and there is no way to reliably measure an aircraft's exact altitude above sea level. You can think of the Mission Editor altitude as a bit of a peak behind the curtain at what the game engine sees. Since it's a simulator, the altitude you see in the cockpit is derived from the absolute altitude based on the local barometric pressure, temperature, and your altimeter setting. 1 Oil In The Water Hornet Campaign. Bunny's: Form-Fillable Controller Layout PDFs | HOTAS Kneeboards | Checklist Kneeboards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biga42 Posted December 24, 2020 Author Share Posted December 24, 2020 yes, but the tanker is supposed to be at angels 20 and it is in the map view but not in the air....imagine you looking for a tanker at night with no NVG with 2000 feet altitude difference..... I think it might be a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biga42 Posted December 24, 2020 Author Share Posted December 24, 2020 same mission with the AV8B: Tanker map altitude Harrier Map Altitude Harrier HUD Harrier Altimeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biga42 Posted December 24, 2020 Author Share Posted December 24, 2020 Now with the F16....same problem as Hornet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobo 1-1 Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 14 hours ago, Bunny Clark said: The altitude in the Mission Editor is a magic number that represents the absolute distance between the aircraft and exact sea level. This isn't a number that has any real equivalent in the real word or gauges we have in the cockpit, as there is no such thing as an exact sea level, and there is no way to reliably measure an aircraft's exact altitude above sea level. You can think of the Mission Editor altitude as a bit of a peak behind the curtain at what the game engine sees. Since it's a simulator, the altitude you see in the cockpit is derived from the absolute altitude based on the local barometric pressure, temperature, and your altimeter setting. This is the kind of thoughtful answer that’s very helpful. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny Clark Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 10 hours ago, Biga42 said: yes, but the tanker is supposed to be at angels 20 and it is in the map view but not in the air....imagine you looking for a tanker at night with no NVG with 2000 feet altitude difference..... I think it might be a bug. It's not a bug, you're misunderstanding what the numbers mean. When you set an aircraft in the mission editor to 20,000 feet, they are placed 20,000 feet above the "0" elevation mark on the map. What does that "0" altitude correlate to? Whatever the person who built the map geometry decided it was. It should be roughly mean sea level, but of course in the real world sea level fluctuates based on the position of the Moon and Sun, the winds, and the water temperature, so there's no "real" exact sea level. In a DCS map "sea level" is an arbitrary point determined by the map creator, especially on a map with seas, which is most of them. Then once in an airplane, you measure your altitude above mean sea level by measuring the air pressure outside the plane. But because atmospheric pressure fluctuates with the weather and temperature, this needs to be calibrated every time you fly (really, multiple times per flight) by referencing the current pressure on the ground at a location with a determined height, typically an airport. But that still doesn't get you a reliable measurement because atmospheric pressure varies from place to place, and doesn't always decrease linearly as you increase altitude. Depending on how the exterior pressure is measured the gauge can also fluctuate with airspeed. So the problem isn't that the game is placing your aircraft at a different altitude than you set it to. It's placing the aircraft exactly where you set it to, but your cockpit gauges aren't measuring altitude accurately - which is 100% realistic. This is a challenge for real pilots every day. It's why air corridors are separated by at least 500 feet in altitude. You can minimize the discrepancy by setting your altimeter up correctly. In your F-16 screenshot I can see that the barometric altimeter is reading lower than the radar altimeter, which is a sure sign that your barometric altimeter is set incorrectly (unless you're flying over Death Valley). 1 Oil In The Water Hornet Campaign. Bunny's: Form-Fillable Controller Layout PDFs | HOTAS Kneeboards | Checklist Kneeboards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biga42 Posted December 25, 2020 Author Share Posted December 25, 2020 when the tanker states that it is at 20.000 ft for approaching for refuel, it should not be at 18A....and I understand the above 5.000ft we shall set altimeter to 29.92....so everyone is set at same baro including the tanker. Inmy first picture you can see that the tanker is at about 18A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 22 hours ago, Bunny Clark said: In your F-16 screenshot I can see that the barometric altimeter is reading lower than the radar altimeter, which is a sure sign that your barometric altimeter is set incorrectly (unless you're flying over Death Valley). You mean the "R19880"?? How can a radar altitude work that high? Unrealistic. Intel Core i5-8600k + Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO | Gigabyte GTX 1070 Aorus 8G | 32GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX Black 3200MHz | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3 | WD Black SN750 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB | WD Green 240GB | WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA 3 | WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 3 | EVGA 650 GQ 80+ Gold | Samsung CF391 Curved 32" | Corsair 400C | Steelseries Arctis 5 --- Razer Kraken X Lite | Logitech G305 | Redragon Dyaus 2 K509 | Xbox 360 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Thrustmaster TWCS | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tholozor Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Joni said: You mean the "R19880"?? How can a radar altitude work that high? Unrealistic. The F-16 is equipped with the AN/APN-232 Combined Altitude Radar Altimeter, which is rated to operate up to 50,000ft. The F/A-18 is equipped with the AN/APN-194 Radar Altimeter Set, which is only rated to operate up to 5,000ft. Edited December 26, 2020 by Tholozor 2 REAPER 51 | Tholozor VFA-136 (c.2007): https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3305981/ Arleigh Burke Destroyer Pack (2020): https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3313752/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 36 minutes ago, Tholozor said: The F-16 is equipped with the AN/APN-232 Combined Altitude Radar Altimeter, which is rated to operate up to 50,000ft. The F/A-18 is equipped with the AN/APN-194 Radar Altimeter Set, which is only rated to operate up to 5,000ft. OMG, I didn't know. Thanks. That's one hell of a spec there. Intel Core i5-8600k + Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO | Gigabyte GTX 1070 Aorus 8G | 32GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX Black 3200MHz | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3 | WD Black SN750 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB | WD Green 240GB | WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA 3 | WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 3 | EVGA 650 GQ 80+ Gold | Samsung CF391 Curved 32" | Corsair 400C | Steelseries Arctis 5 --- Razer Kraken X Lite | Logitech G305 | Redragon Dyaus 2 K509 | Xbox 360 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Thrustmaster TWCS | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny Clark Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 15 hours ago, Biga42 said: when the tanker states that it is at 20.000 ft for approaching for refuel, it should not be at 18A.... Yah, that's a separate, though related, issue. When we call the tanker on the radio in game it should really report it's altitude based on the current pressure altitude, not absolute altitude. 6 hours ago, Joni said: OMG, I didn't know. Thanks. That's one hell of a spec there. Yah, that's one thing I really like about the Viper, being able to always see rad and baro alt on the HUD together is great, rather than needing to fiddle with a switch or get an annoying flashing B whenever I'm above 5,000 feet. Oil In The Water Hornet Campaign. Bunny's: Form-Fillable Controller Layout PDFs | HOTAS Kneeboards | Checklist Kneeboards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda967 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 It's also a big problem for airspace deconfliction. If you have elements of a strike package separated vertically by a thousand feet, but the altitude of the waypoints is in "feet above an arbitrary zero altitude" and not "feet above MSL", even setting the baro altimeter to 29.92 doesn't keep you deconflicted from the AI, with the difference being what it is. The current fix seems to be for the mission designer to figure out what the difference is between the ME altitude for each element and what the player thinks the assigned altitude is based on the instruments in the cockpit and adjust accordingly. It adds a step that shouldn't be necessary. Very Respectfully, Kurt "Yoda" Kalbfleisch London "In my private manual I firmly believed the only time there was too much fuel aboard any aircraft was if it was fire." --Ernest K. Gann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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