MBDA Meteor on M-2000c

[JRM]

Hi I, just tested all the capabilities from the mirage 2000c and really looks to me that Razbam made an awesome job with this simulation project, I have tested all 4th gen air to air platforms in dcs for more than 250 hours each one and I must say that this Mirage is actually the best simulation project in my opinion.

Now, I fell that the bvr capabilities of this Mirage are way below others Air2Air platforms in the game so I was wondering if theres a way that razbam devs include the MBDA Meteor to the mirage 2000c. I know that the only mirage that has the capability to carry this missile is the M-2000 5 of the Armée de l'air  but it will be a really good thing if the development team gives the players a chance to fly a Mirage 2000-C with competitive BVR capabilities even if this does affect realism a bit.

One thing that goes to my mind is why the Armée de l'air  has not implemented the MBDA meteor in the mirage 2000-C, Maybe because the radar and tracking systems are too old to attach with one of the newest a2a weaponry developments of MBDA? Well I would like that some expert in this matter gives a opinion about this in this post.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[R.MES]

Unfortunately, you are far from reality. Mirage 2000-5 can't carry the Meteor.

So far only Rafale, Eurofighter, and Gripen can do that (F-35 in project).

As far as we know, there is no project to add it on the Mirage 2000 whatever the version or the operator.

So honestly, absolutly no chance to see the Meteor on the Razbam Mirage 2000C ...

 

[jojo]

Well, no.

Only the Rafale is equipped with Meteor missile in French Air Force (Eurofighter and Gripen too for other partners).

 

The Mirage 2000-5F uses the Mica as Fox 3 missile.

 

This is a matter of timeframe.

As Fox 1 fighter, Mirage 2000C was competitive from mid-1980' to mid-1990'.

 

AIM-120B started to be introduced in 1994, and it took some times.

 

Mirage 2000-5F has been delivered between 1997 and 1999. And even then, Mirage 2000C was still relevant against former Warsaw Pact countries and their allies which were still using Fox 1.

 

In DCS, everyone is flying F-15C, F/A-18C, F-16C with Fox 3, or even JF-17 which is much newer. On top of that they add Link 16, JHMCS and AIM-9X or equivalent for JF-17.

 

But for instance, during Desert Storm in 1991, F-15C and F/A-18C were using AIM-7M, most F-16 had no radar guided missiles, no JHMCS, mostly no L16.

 

And even during Allied Force over Kosovo in 1999, F-15C were flying with a mixed load of Fox 1, Fox 2 & Fox 3.

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:F-15C.jpg

 

In DCS itwould be 2 x Fox 2 + 6 x Fox 3.

 

And finally, there is a lack of full fidelity modules on the Red side.

So in MP servers the M-2000C is often assigned to Red side and have to face Fox 3 US fighters.

 

Since DCS modules rather tend toward realism, you won't get weapons that don't fit to the real life counterpart.

[Thinder]

13 hours ago, JRM said:

Hi I, just tested all the capabilities from the mirage 2000c and really looks to me that Razbam made an awesome job with this simulation project, I have tested all 4th gen air to air platforms in dcs for more than 250 hours each one and I must say that this Mirage is actually the best simulation project in my opinion.

Now, I fell that the bvr capabilities of this Mirage are way below others Air2Air platforms in the game so I was wondering if theres a way that razbam devs include the MBDA Meteor to the mirage 2000c. I know that the only mirage that has the capability to carry this missile is the M-2000 5 of the Armée de l'air  but it will be a really good thing if the development team gives the players a chance to fly a Mirage 2000-C with competitive BVR capabilities even if this does affect realism a bit.

One thing that goes to my mind is why the Armée de l'air  has not implemented the MBDA meteor in the mirage 2000-C, Maybe because the radar and tracking systems are too old to attach with one of the newest a2a weaponry developments of MBDA? Well I would like that some expert in this matter gives a opinion about this in this post.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just to say, if we had a -5 or Mk 2, you wouldn't have this BVR issue flying a Mirage 2000 vs the variants of F-16/F-18 available in this game, at this point of their respective evolution in upgrades and available weapons, the MICAs does the job pretty well and the -5F can launch them in TWS mode.

 

Meteor was conceived to counter the lastest generation of BVR weapons, not that used on the US fighters of the time which are <> in MICA category, don't underestimate MICA, especially because MBDA is working on its NG variant since 2018.

 

Quote

More specifically, the infrared seeker will use a matrix sensor providing greater sensitivity. Meanwhile the radio frequency seeker will use an AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Antenna), enabling smart detection strategies. The reduced volume of electronic components within MICA NG will allow it to carry a larger quantity of propellant, thereby significantly extending the range of the missile. Utilising a new double-pulse rocket motor will also provide additional energy to the missile at the end of its flight to improve manoeuvrability and the ability to intercept targets at long range...

MBDA to develop the next generation of the MICA missile

 

Increased AAM range, better seekers, this should make any Mirage 2000-5F/Mk2 happy... When we are graced with one that is.

 

So, OK, the actual 2000C is at a clear disadvantage as it is now but if it was pitted vs the equivalent F-16/18 blocks of the time, the situation would be reversed, the variant that should be pitted vs the actual DCS US fighters truely are the -5F and Mk2, that's the situation and what we got, until someone upgrade it to put it level with the US fighters. No Meteor though...

Edited December 27, 2020 by Thinder

[Dragon1-1]

TBH, I'd rather have early blocks of Viper and Hornet, to fit in with the likes of Tomcat and the Mirage (as well as the upcoming MiG-23 and MiG-29). Then, the M-2000 would actually be one of the better fighters out there. The 80s/90s settings would be better for multiplayer anyway, as it would require more finesse than Fox 3 spamming (proper BVR combat is cool, but that's not what airquakers are doing).

[Qiou87]

4 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

TBH, I'd rather have early blocks of Viper and Hornet, to fit in with the likes of Tomcat and the Mirage (as well as the upcoming MiG-23 and MiG-29). Then, the M-2000 would actually be one of the better fighters out there. The 80s/90s settings would be better for multiplayer anyway, as it would require more finesse than Fox 3 spamming (proper BVR combat is cool, but that's not what airquakers are doing).

As a stop-gap, is it not possible to make a Fox1 server where GPS and L16 are not available? I know if you make a SP mission before 1994, you can restrict some systems in the jet. If you take away AIM-120 and 9X to the US jets, as well as L16, it is probably more balanced.

 

AFAIK the -5 was in the works at some point, although yes the MICA EM would be the only Fox3 available for it. I think the AdA was interested in it (they use the Razbam 2000C for training) but I am not sure if this is still ongoing (especially considering the amount of simultaneous projects Razbam has on their plate). An updated radar, L16 and Fox3 would make this a much more competitive jet, but also more enjoyable overall when doing CAP in PVE or SP (4x Fox3 compared to 2x Fox1 would be quite huge as well). I resent the fact that this is only for "airquake" PVP, I fly only SP and PVE and would like a jet that can fire more than 2 missiles before RTB, or has a better radar/SA...

Edited January 12, 2021 by Qiou87

[Rafale_c]

There came some news in the air about some IAF Dash 5s being equipped with meteors

[TheMightyMirage]

On 4/17/2021 at 12:52 AM, Rafale_c said:

There came some news in the air about some IAF Dash 5s being equipped with meteors

In fact Indian Mirages can be equipped with MICA EM, MICA IR, MICA RF, R-73. India want to put meteors but France won't do it cause then they think point of Rafale is lost in BVR.

Indian engineers along with Israeli Engineers equipped the upgraded Mirage 2000-5 MKIIs that came from France with ELBIT Dash 4 helmet, French missiles that were provided by France (MICA IR, MICA EM, MICA RF) and Russian R-73 missile.

and now india wants this:BrahMos NG, Israeli Derby, Meteor, MICA, indigenous Astra, R-73 and R-77 on Mirage 2000I

Edited April 20, 2021 by TheMightyMirage

[jojo]

9 minutes ago, TheMightyMirage said:

In fact Indian Mirages can be equipped with MICA EM, MICA IR, MICA RF, R-73. India want to put meteors but France won't do it cause then they think point of Rafale is lost in BVR.

Indian engineers along with Israeli Engineers equipped the upgraded Mirage 2000-5 MKIIs that came from France with ELBIT Dash 4 helmet, French missiles that were provided by France (MICA IR, MICA EM, MICA RF) and Russian R-73 missile.

 

That's the funny thing, they put French Thales' TopSight I (and made in India) on MiG-29K, and Israeli helmet on Mirage 2000 I (Mirage 2000-5 MkII is the Greek variant).

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by jojo

[TheMightyMirage]

@jojo That's called hindi "jugaad"!

3 minutes ago, jojo said:

 

That's the funny thing, they put French Thales' TopSight I (and made in India) on MiG-29K, and Israeli helmet on Mirage 2000 I (Mirage 2000-5 MkII is the Greek variant).

 

 

I'm not sure if they used ELBIT DASH 4 that was used on Tejas or they used TopSight I

So now i am in the process of making an indian air force asset pack(only Fighters)

Edited April 20, 2021 by TheMightyMirage

[TheMightyMirage]

Check this out! https://www.businessinsider.in/indian-air-force-reworks-mirage-fighter-with-israeli-aid/articleshow/70186697.cms

[jojo]

38 minutes ago, TheMightyMirage said:

Check this out! https://www.businessinsider.in/indian-air-force-reworks-mirage-fighter-with-israeli-aid/articleshow/70186697.cms

It seems to be before Mirage 2000 I upgrade program...

[jojo]

A dream became true...

[Rafale_c]

The Mirage with the IAF can in theory beat the Rafale, seems logical why French refused to integrate the Meteor

[Rafale_c]

I wonder if Razbam integrates Meteors and SCALP on the Dash 5 when they make it

On 4/21/2021 at 1:56 AM, jojo said:

A dream became true...

How?????

[jojo]

12 minutes ago, Rafale_c said:

The Mirage with the IAF can in theory beat the Rafale, seems logical why French refused to integrate the Meteor

 

Maybe a from times to times, but on average, Rafale will prevail.

 

9 minutes ago, Rafale_c said:

I wonder if Razbam integrates Meteors and SCALP on the Dash 5 when they make it

 

No plan for the moment. The question isn't "when ?" but "if ?"
 

10 minutes ago, Rafale_c said:

How?????

It's a joke