Any modern NATO RWRs able to detect direction of incoming airborne IFF-interrogation?

[D4n]

Thread should remain open until some military radio-wave specialists who in a few years will be former RWR engineers reply in a few years in this thread and declassify what the RWRs of 1990-2000 were capable off.

[Dagger71]

44 minutes ago, DanielNL said:

Thread should remain open until some military radio-wave specialists who in a few years will be former RWR engineers reply in a few years in this thread and declassify what the RWRs of 1990-2000 were capable off.

RWRs are not classified BUT to talk about specifics can potentially be.    And who are you waiting for????? I seriously doubt a former military  "RWR engineer" is going to be allowed to comment here.  Just open s new thread in 20 years.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Dagger71

[Emu]

On 1/24/2021 at 5:38 PM, Dagger71 said:

So the answer is no. But  I find it absolutely fascinating that the forum on your link posted the exact same question just two days before you posted this.

We can close this thread.

I asked the question because I knew he worked in that area as his CV suggests.  But believe whatever you want, if you want to believe that there's something magical about IFF RF transmissions that make them completely invisible to all RF band detectors that's up to you.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Emu

[Dagger71]

15 hours ago, Emu said:

, if you want to believe that there's something magical about IFF RF transmissions that make them completely invisible to all RF band detectors that's up to you.

 

Ok I am going to bow out of this conversation because it is clearly becoming nonsensical. 

There is nothing magical about IFF transmissions. I never made this statement.   They are however NOT  RF frequencies that any current  RWR are designed to pick up.    If I tune my radio to 104 MHz, it will  NOT be able to pick up any other frequency.     My radio cannot pickup anything other that frequencies on the AM and FM frequency bands. 

There really is nothing left to say on this topic. It's been answered several times.

[G.J.S]

On 12/30/2020 at 11:32 PM, DanielNL said:

So I wondered whether the DCS Flanker aircraft (J-11, Su-33, Su-27) can IFF the DCS Harrier (for example) from their EOS-lock (IRST) without the Harrier's RWR detecting an incoming radio-wave from that specific direction.

 

One would assume an RWR to technically be able to detect the direction of the source of any radio-wave, now according to these two publicly available sources (a document and article) some (or all?) IFF systems are using C, D, E & I-Bands (if I understand the sources correctly), but does this also go for 1980-90s soviet/russian airborne IFF systems?

If so, does anyone know if specific RWRs are at least able to detect the direction of the source of for example airborne 1960s/70s IFF-interrogations? (Is there anything declassified about such meanwhile-50-to-60-years-old IFF-technology?) Very interesting topic imo.
 

*fixed 2nd source link.

 

Harrier would have no RWR pickup of the offensive Sukhoi due to the Sukhoi using an EOS lock, which is not a radar lock.

RWR detects radar signal output, EO is passive, so Harrier would have no warning unless PIC is actually looking at Sukhoi.

IFF of the Harrier by the Sukhoi by EOS alone would also not be possible. EOS lock doesn’t distinguish between friendly hotspot or enemy hotspot. That falls to the pilot to differentiate.

On 12/30/2020 at 11:32 PM, DanielNL said:

So I wondered whether the DCS Flanker aircraft (J-11, Su-33, Su-27) can IFF the DCS Harrier (for example) from their EOS-lock (IRST) without the Harrier's RWR detecting an incoming radio-wave from that specific direction.

 

One would assume an RWR to technically be able to detect the direction of the source of any radio-wave, now according to these two publicly available sources (a document and article) some (or all?) IFF systems are using C, D, E & I-Bands (if I understand the sources correctly), but does this also go for 1980-90s soviet/russian airborne IFF systems?

If so, does anyone know if specific RWRs are at least able to detect the direction of the source of for example airborne 1960s/70s IFF-interrogations? (Is there anything declassified about such meanwhile-50-to-60-years-old IFF-technology?) Very interesting topic imo.
 

*fixed 2nd source link.

 

Harrier would have no RWR pickup of the offensive Sukhoi due to the Sukhoi using an EOS lock, which is not a radar lock.

RWR detects radar signal output, EO is passive, so Harrier would have no warning unless PIC is actually looking at Sukhoi.

IFF of the Harrier by the Sukhoi by EOS alone would also not be possible. EOS lock doesn’t distinguish between friendly hotspot or enemy hotspot. That falls to the pilot to differentiate.

On 12/30/2020 at 11:32 PM, DanielNL said:

So I wondered whether the DCS Flanker aircraft (J-11, Su-33, Su-27) can IFF the DCS Harrier (for example) from their EOS-lock (IRST) without the Harrier's RWR detecting an incoming radio-wave from that specific direction.

 

One would assume an RWR to technically be able to detect the direction of the source of any radio-wave, now according to these two publicly available sources (a document and article) some (or all?) IFF systems are using C, D, E & I-Bands (if I understand the sources correctly), but does this also go for 1980-90s soviet/russian airborne IFF systems?

If so, does anyone know if specific RWRs are at least able to detect the direction of the source of for example airborne 1960s/70s IFF-interrogations? (Is there anything declassified about such meanwhile-50-to-60-years-old IFF-technology?) Very interesting topic imo.
 

*fixed 2nd source link.

 

Harrier would have no RWR pickup of the offensive Sukhoi due to the Sukhoi using an EOS lock, which is not a radar lock.

RWR detects radar signal output, EO is passive, so Harrier would have no warning unless PIC is actually looking at Sukhoi.

IFF of the Harrier by the Sukhoi by EOS alone would also not be possible. EOS lock doesn’t distinguish between friendly hotspot or enemy hotspot. That falls to the pilot to differentiate.

[Emu]

19 hours ago, Dagger71 said:

Ok I am going to bow out of this conversation because it is clearly becoming nonsensical. 

There is nothing magical about IFF transmissions. I never made this statement.   They are however NOT  RF frequencies that any current  RWR are designed to pick up.    If I tune my radio to 104 MHz, it will  NOT be able to pick up any other frequency.     My radio cannot pickup anything other that frequencies on the AM and FM frequency bands. 

There really is nothing left to say on this topic. It's been answered several times.

IFF is 1-2GHz which is L Band.  RWR needs to cover down to VHF, since one of the S-400 radars uses this band.

 

https://www.strategicfront.org/forums/threads/rafale-rb-of-indian-air-force-news-and-discussions.3/post-168189

https://www.strategicfront.org/forums/threads/rafale-rb-of-indian-air-force-news-and-discussions.3/post-170057

 

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Emu