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Spotting is really bad


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3 hours ago, Docsnuggles said:

it seems that some people don't see it - i wonder if they all fly with dots on.

 

Not an option on most PVP servers... I mean the current system isn't that bad compared to what it was say a year ago, but I really really did like those glorious dots in VR.

 

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11 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

 

Not an option on most PVP servers... I mean the current system isn't that bad compared to what it was say a year ago, but I really really did like those glorious dots in VR.

 


Whats your VR settings?

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5 hours ago, StevanJ said:


Whats your VR settings?

 

Pd 1.0 and SSS at 74% (native res) are the relevant ones. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/26/2021 at 6:32 AM, Docsnuggles said:

It's not only in VR that planes incl. contrails disappear; just setup an AWACS and fly along it and zoom. it's there, it's no... depending on angle it will completely vanish and only popup when zooming. I use 2D for learning & ME and VR afterwards when finished. But the complete disappearing is in 2D more visible.

Yes indeed! In 2dk, I have to zoom-out to see the dots as there is a large visual depth where one cannot spot contacts. Then, when assumed close enough, switch to default zoom or closer.

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  • 3 months later...

Aircraft still disappear at mid range and when zooming in and out too. Same goes for contrails, ground fire, smoke columns, etc. 

As DCS gives us the option to warp back and forth in the aircraft by changing the zoom (FOV) level it just creates a very very weird looking experience. If one isn't zooming all the time he's actually playing a different game.

I can see balloons over Caen from mid channel but to see contrailing enemys 20 km infront of me I have to zoom in. All depending on the current FOV (zoom level). Different FOVs shouldn't affect whats visible, just how small or large it appears to the player. The whole spotting / rendering engine needs a rework. This is a major drawback of DCS since years. 

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2 hours ago, Walshtimothy said:

+1 can see contacts very far away,  and really close , but at distance of say 2 miles planes often appear to vanish , using with a hp reverb g2 👍

 

Yeah, its weird and it doesn't really scale well in the mid distances and I can confirm. Long distance, no problem spotting vs "sky", probably more than is realistic TBH vs sky, Vs ground it seems fine. Mid distance, I'm BLIND yo!, close up mostly ok.

 

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On 7/19/2021 at 7:55 AM, River said:

 

Ah come on, read my post. 

 

On 7/18/2021 at 1:27 PM, Ala13_ManOWar said:

Have you tried to spot a thing at 20Km by yourself in real life? 🤔

 

S!

This comes up every now and again and this is a Common response from the DCS fanboy talking points.  
I have Never flown a fighter but certainly I’m not dumb enough to believe that real pilots can see far away, and close up, but in between things disappear??? Just ignore him.  
A fix would be nice!!!!


Edited by Mr. Big.Biggs
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2 hours ago, Mr. Big.Biggs said:

 

This comes up every now and again and this is a Common response from the DCS fanboy talking points.  
I have Never flew a fighter but certainly I’m not dumb enough to believe that real pilots can see far away, and close up, but in between things disappear??? Just ignore him.  
A fix would be nice!!!!

 

IDK, we have enough GA pilots here to have at least some clue of how far away you can see aircraft under various conditions. Is it the same as a fighter, no, not exactly but its in the same ballpark. I think in VR the long range spotting is usually too good, mid range is terrible, and then close range is about right. And alot of that is how VR zoom is implemented. That being said its vastly better than it was a year or two ago where literally spotting anything in VR was basically a no-go.

1 hour ago, pmiceli said:

Sure. I can see some thing 149,668,992 kilometers away right now.

 

Don't look directly at that, or you won't be seeing much of anything after 😉

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From test we made in our team, we tried to modify graphic settings.

For a lot of us, a real + for visibility is obtained by changing the visual distance to Medium.

 

Medium allow to have a spot at "long distance". And when the spot disappear, the 3D model start to be visible.

With Low settings, the visual is not good enough at long range.

But with higher setting than Medium (=High, Extreme and Ultra), there is a gap at "medium" range. Dot disappear quite far but 3D model is not yet visible on screen.

 

With Medium visibility distance, I can't see as far as with other option. It's hard to see.
Visibility is hard. Depend a lot on the hardware of everyone. But there is at least no gap. there is always something to see.

 

 

I get even better results with no MSAA or SSAA.

Hope there will be something done for higher setting because my computer can handle them. But as there is nothing on screen it make the game unplayable.


None of us use VR. So don't know about VR settings.

Most of people that tried had screen from 24" to 28"

 

Hope it can help some people.

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On 7/19/2021 at 2:25 PM, Mr. Big.Biggs said:

 

This comes up every now and again and this is a Common response from the DCS fanboy talking points.  
I have Never flew a fighter but certainly I’m not dumb enough to believe that real pilots can see far away, and close up, but in between things disappear??? Just ignore him.  
A fix would be nice!!!!

Yeah, well, you can call it DCS fanboy talking community, you can call it I've been there trying to seek a small white GA aircraft in front of me in the traffic pattern, perhaps 2-3Km away, with me being at 125%+ eyesight and not being able to see it until after quite a time checking and when you see it's a barely traceable minuscule dot in the horizon. Your choice 🤣 :thumbup:.

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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7 hours ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

Yeah, well, you can call it DCS fanboy talking community, you can call it I've been there trying to seek a small white GA aircraft in front of me in the traffic pattern, perhaps 2-3Km away, with me being at 125%+ eyesight and not being able to see it until after quite a time checking and when you see it's a barely traceable minuscule dot in the horizon. Your choice 🤣 :thumbup:.

 

S!

 

I think you miss the point.
In your plane you don't see it because it's hard, BUT there is something to see.

 

In DCS, depending on the settings and some other parameters, a element can totally disappear from the sky. At this point there is absolutly nothing on the screen.

 

This can happen because of :

- game settings (this vary between people because of hardware)

- the direction you are looking. If you look directly on something it will be there. But if you turn a bit your head with the object still in the screen it can disappear too.

- the sun reflexion making element more or less visible (that is great) but in some case make the dot totally disappear.

 

To me DCS is quite great on the visual. But we need a fix for all the case the game make element disappear totally from the screen.

Having trouble to spot something that is thin on screen is OK.

Having trouble to spot something because it's not anymore on screen is not OK

 

Ps : I talk about middle range only !

Object that are far are in most case visible but disappear when getting closer to finally appear again at really close range.

 

I got a fix by lowering my settings. But it's sad to have to do that with a computer that can handle high settings.

Now I have hard time to spot. But I have something to spot.

EDIT

This might help you to understand part of the problem.
Obviously, all 3 series of screenshot were taken quite fast to stay at the "same position".
In this case, plane disappeared because I had only moved my head by few °

 


Edited by JG13Wulf
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Yeah, I get your point and what you mean. But I believe they're quite different aspects going on there, the LODs of course making contacts appear and disappear whenever you zoom in-out, right, but also changing lighting making contacts the same colour as background so you can't effectively see them, even though they are there. It can be annoying some times, but in real life it happens exactly the same, and due to lighting either, so that's quite real indeed no matter how annoying that is and you don't have an option to change colours, your screen contrast or whatever other settings IRL, right?

 

Contacts in DCS has been a thing since I can remember due to a different thing, they were 1:1 scale contacts even though your screen size and resolution weren't. I believe now they are quite more visible than before, just lighting effects make their play like IRL, and I like that despite it can be annoying, it's quite real. Zoom in-out lod issues, well  you don't have zoom in-out IRL so I don't know what a workaround to that could be.

 

Anyhow, expecting to easily see contacts at 20Km if not under certain circumstantial conditions is just a dream, most people IRL can't see a thing, they don't, it's not that easy nor people's sight is that good. It isn't. It's like asking ED to fix the eyes you don't have IRL for an eagle's eye just because you think yourself a top notch ace with beyond perfect eyesight 99% of the people just isn't. It's annoying but not more that it is IRL when you can't see a thing due to day conditions.

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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Here it's not what you mean. It's not realism with color that change. it's just a bug when 60 plane goes disappearing for 1 pilot but not for the guy nexxt to him.

I agree we should not see as far as some expect. But what I show here is clearly something that is broken in DCS.

This is kind of trouble that might not be too problematic for modern game as you have HUD to help.

But for WW2 it's game breaking problem.


Edited by JG13Wulf
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11 hours ago, JG13Wulf said:

Here it's not what you mean. It's not realism with color that change. it's just a bug when 60 plane goes disappearing for 1 pilot but not for the guy nexxt to him.

I agree we should not see as far as some expect. But what I show here is clearly something that is broken in DCS.

 

Yeah, I see what you mean. Anyway, that's a really hard problem to fix, I mean, how can we compare what the settings and everything is in those two guys seeing different things? Is it hardware related? Drivers perhaps? Do you both use the same resolution in a screen the same size and features and are those two in similar home environments, lighting and everything? Are your settings exactly the same with regard to image, I mean screen menu itself for instance but windows also, colour, contrast, brightness, Gamma? Are your screen colours calibrated at all? That's really hard to compare in the first place. I've had the chance to be at some friends' homes to see by myself what they "see" in DCS, or any other thing, and I've seen so many people with really weird screen settings they weren't even aware of, I don't know how that could be compared at all. ED can't be at everyone's home to set our screens and all for us, and that makes a huge difference.

 

S!

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"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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46 minutes ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

Yeah, I see what you mean. Anyway, that's a really hard problem to fix, I mean, how can we compare what the settings and everything is in those two guys seeing different things? Is it hardware related? Drivers perhaps? Do you both use the same resolution in a screen the same size and features and are those two in similar home environments, lighting and everything? Are your settings exactly the same with regard to image, I mean screen menu itself for instance but windows also, colour, contrast, brightness, Gamma? Are your screen colours calibrated at all? That's really hard to compare in the first place. I've had the chance to be at some friends' homes to see by myself what they "see" in DCS, or any other thing, and I've seen so many people with really weird screen settings they weren't even aware of, I don't know how that could be compared at all. ED can't be at everyone's home to set our screens and all for us, and that makes a huge difference.

 

S!

All the screenshot in the video are taken by myself. So all of them come from the same computer with the same settings. And all series of pic depict about 5 seconds of flight.

It's really a pop in and out. I can keep my eyes on them and see perfect black spot turning on and off when I move a bit my head with my track IR.

But in some case, with multiple plane in formation (really close to each other), we were able to notice the exact same behavior (pop in and out of the same object) by moving head to similar direction.

From what I have tested with other player until now, I can jus tell that lot of us have similar trouble even if some have new computer with last RTX 3090 or some have older hadware (like me with I7 8700K, 16Go Ram and RTX 2070 Super).

 

About screen, we have player that have from 24" to 28" screen (maybe some that have even larger) that reported the problem too.

I don't think here settings make a big difference because lot of stuff just pop in and out (plane, ballon, smoke effect, fire effect, far flak effect, ...).

 

The only thing settings really help is when plane get closer. It seems that higher settings make the black spot over the 3D model disappear too far and then there is nothing on screen until the 3D get large enough to be seen. But about this, computer hardware and screen make really big difference for everyone.
Changing from high to medium visibility distance reduce how far I can spot. But at least I have less trouble now.


I don't know what could cause this type of problem exactly. But I think that even if hardware and settings are important, there is something in game that cause problem. In particular when dot just pop out then in when you slightly turn your head.

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Yeah, the pop in-pop out thing is probably a lods issue. I don't know what the workaround for that should be.

 

S!

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"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/22/2021 at 10:26 PM, JG13Wulf said:

All the screenshot in the video are taken by myself. So all of them come from the same computer with the same settings. And all series of pic depict about 5 seconds of flight.

It's really a pop in and out. I can keep my eyes on them and see perfect black spot turning on and off when I move a bit my head with my track IR.

But in some case, with multiple plane in formation (really close to each other), we were able to notice the exact same behavior (pop in and out of the same object) by moving head to similar direction.

From what I have tested with other player until now, I can jus tell that lot of us have similar trouble even if some have new computer with last RTX 3090 or some have older hadware (like me with I7 8700K, 16Go Ram and RTX 2070 Super).

 

About screen, we have player that have from 24" to 28" screen (maybe some that have even larger) that reported the problem too.

I don't think here settings make a big difference because lot of stuff just pop in and out (plane, ballon, smoke effect, fire effect, far flak effect, ...).

 

The only thing settings really help is when plane get closer. It seems that higher settings make the black spot over the 3D model disappear too far and then there is nothing on screen until the 3D get large enough to be seen. But about this, computer hardware and screen make really big difference for everyone.
Changing from high to medium visibility distance reduce how far I can spot. But at least I have less trouble now.


I don't know what could cause this type of problem exactly. But I think that even if hardware and settings are important, there is something in game that cause problem. In particular when dot just pop out then in when you slightly turn your head.

Yeah this is still happening for me. When I fly with people who use VR they are always spotting planes before me. Some of these people that see things way better then me are also using MODs that improve spotting. Can DCS just render planes in a way that's visible? Why do I have to be at a huge disadvantage because I use a screen and high resolution with no graphics mods?

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  • 2 weeks later...

DCS WW2 was an after thought it seems... Fix it Please!

The sim was developed for jets... BVR and radar its fine. But for up close WW2 dogfighting IT SUCKS. You really can enjoy or get any good at dogfighting if you lose sight of your opponent. It is possible... If you ever played Freehost Warbirds, the dogfighting is very enjoyable. It was developed a longtime ago but is still the best air combat sim ever made. The graphics are old school and it will run on any computer. But you the game play is worth it... eye candy is not everything. You can keep the other plane in sight and have some great dogfighting. Planes dont disappear and it has peripheral vision. DCS is like looking through two paper towel tubs... tunnel vision. Not to mention planes vanishing at the critical moment. 

The views in this sim are very disappointing... I dont even know why I keep playing this... FIX This. 

Check out this video... This was an old timey game and they have excellent views. I never lose site of the other planes. 

https://youtu.be/LT2Oh72HL9M

 


       

Warbirds Freehost.jpg


Edited by flygav
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