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Spotting is really bad


Snapage

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2 minutes ago, PL_Harpoon said:

Can you explain more about this?

I could not find autoexec.cfg in my Saved Games/DCS folder.

 

autoexec.cfg is a file that is created manually by the user for various commands, if you do not have it you do not need to worry. 

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On 2/28/2021 at 11:16 AM, Snapage said:

I have noticed planes appearing and disappearing at long distance lately. No idea why. Only happens at long distance while they are small dots. Zooming does not seem to help

I've noticed it, too. I guess when planes are far away, they are represented by a single dark pixel which makes them visible. But as they get closer, more and more complex models are displayed, and if the planes have light gray or light blue colors, they can be harder to spot against the sky. I know, that's how camouflage should work, but AI opponents have no problems with spotting.


Edited by JetJake76
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 1/4/2021 at 4:20 AM, Fri13 said:

 

Welcome to the reality. You are extremely challenged to spot anything on the ground or in the air. That is why various sensors like radars and IRST has been developed to make it possible detect something. And why all kind other technologies like datalinks has been developed to actually get one sensor data transmitted for other system to be used for targeting or combine with it (and other) sensors.

 

Example the F-5 is famous for its true stealthiness. You point that fighter nose at the enemy and you disappear like you would have covered yourself with Harry Potter cloak of invisibility.

And if the target can't estimate your trajectory and energy to get on benefitical position and how to avoid it, they die for it as they have no idea anymore where you are and what you can do.

You can't do that same with the F-14 or F-15. You don't sneak around one by doing so simple thing.

 

The rule of dog fight is, do not lose an eye sight of your enemy. Keep your eyes all the time on it or you might never find it anymore. And when the F-5 can perform a such magical disappearing, they get the control of fight.

 

BVR spotting range.jpg

 

I think the DCS offers still too good spotting capabilities for the air, and way too excellent for the ground. As on the ground it is rule of thumb that pilot can spot something on ground at about 1000-1500 meters visually. We are not talking a red civilian car on the highway or middle of the bright green field. But a military painted vehicles stationary in the minimum expected manner. And if the ground units does anything as their basic training teaches them, they become invisible for the visual spotting, FLIR and lasers. You do not see them, you don't spot them, you don't find them. Only specific kind things will reveal their position, such as movement, light, smoke, fire and tracks/trails. And that means someone using flashlight at night, fires a weapon at night, doesn't cover shiny surfaces that can reflect sun, doesn't hide their tracks, keeps moving on stationary terrain etc.

 

Even Afghan militants found this by hard way, that running away in panic from Mi-24 lead only to death as it was easy to spot them on ground when moving. But when they staid stationary, the pilots became almost completely blind and even flew over or next to them without spotting them on the ground.

 

War is about information, it is not about who has biggest bomb. It is that you know where enemy is, what is tne enemy strength and capability, and what is readiness and performance to complete expected missions from it. This is why a game of chess is still far more valuable in military tactics and strategies than any other game is. Why such a simple things means life or death as unit capability to arrive on location at expected time and manner and to follow orders without hesitation.

 

War is not that you send pilots to fly around and expect them to see all, and then just go there to shoot everything down they just spot.

Your explanation would be ok, if it was truely adaptable in DCS. But when you zoom in and out, a plane, chopper... disappears - appears, it is a designbug imo. There are no discussions I think that one needs to train, but you can simply see even the trails of an AWACS show and disappear, there are lots of examples.  You can for example look here, actually it's still reproducable.

 

 

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On 1/6/2021 at 1:02 PM, PL_Harpoon said:

Yeah, can't wait for mine to arrive.

 

In the mean time I found that playing at PD 1.0 with no anti-aliasing and no super sampling gives me the best visibility at long range (even though the game looks worse up close).

I use PD0,5 and have per eye multiply to 500% in WMR. Smooth and clear now (HP G1). In 2D I cannot see a plane clear and in VR its totally clear. I played with different settings, but the only thing helped in 2D was contrast up, sharpness up, details all down - looks nearly like a brickgame from the 80s in my youth... not what i want.

 

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55 minutes ago, Docsnuggles said:

I use PD0,5 and have per eye multiply to 500% in WMR. Smooth and clear now (HP G1). In 2D I cannot see a plane clear and in VR its totally clear. I played with different settings, but the only thing helped in 2D was contrast up, sharpness up, details all down - looks nearly like a brickgame from the 80s in my youth... not what i want.

 


Ive tried this game on a plethora of different systems, from an i3 RX580, to an i9 2080ti.
Ive got a 4k - 144hz Monitor, a 1080 144hz monitor, and a Quest.

1080p, Issues with spotting, but i can still make out 'movement' if i focus.
4k, no issues with spotting.

VR, no issues with spotting as long as Pixel Density is as high as it can be.

I can promise you, itll be your settings.
Perhaps if you brought to the discussion your in game settings and hardware to the discussion, you might be able to find a common link or problem, youre all sharing that can be easily resolved?

image.png

I have tried a few different settings, in the hope to get the best out of the game, and the one setting that always makes my game run 'with spotting issues' is changing the pixel density.
I find any attempt to change the settings of this game outside of being in it, result in issues.
The best example of getting 'better settings of the game, was tactical pascales 'Quest settings'.
It made the game run in high everything, but when it came to Multiplayer, it was a nightmare. In the end, i just went to stock.
And ive hardly noticed the differences overall.
The best settings ive tried and found for best gameplay is to keep PD as high as you can. Mines at 1.6 right now.

I think until technology catches up to the game, or the games optimised to the technology, you're best just moving to 'lower settings' to get the best out of the game in VR.
If youre unprepared to adjust settings to improve gameplay, then theres not much else you can do other than turn the game off.
While id love to enjoy this game in High settings, its just not there yet but it will.


Edited by StevanJ
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3 minutes ago, StevanJ said:


Ive tried this game on a plethora of different systems, from an i3 RX580, to an i9 2080ti.
Ive got a 4k - 144hz Monitor, a 1080 144hz monitor, and a Quest.

1080p, Issues with spotting, but i can still make out 'movement' if i focus.
4k, no issues with spotting.

VR, no issues with spotting as long as Pixel Density is as high as it can be.

I can promise you, itll be your settings.
Perhaps if you brought to the discussion your in game settings and hardware to the discussion, you might be able to find a common link or problem, youre all sharing that can be easily resolved?

image.png

I have tried a few different settings, in the hope to get the best out of the game, and the one setting that always makes my game run 'with spotting issues' is changing the pixel density.
I find any attempt to change the settings of this game outside of being in it, result in issues.
The best example of getting 'better settings of the game, was tactical pascales 'Quest settings'.
It made the game run in high everything, but when it came to Multiplayer, it was a nightmare. In the end, i just went to stock.
And ive hardly noticed the differences overall.
The best settings ive tried and found for best gameplay is to keep PD as high as you can. Mines at 1.6 right now.

I think until technology catches up to the game, or the games optimised to the technology, you're best just moving to 'lower settings' to get the best out of the game in VR.
If youre unprepared to adjust settings to improve gameplay, then theres not much else you can do other than turn the game off.
While id love to enjoy this game in High settings, its just not there yet but it will.

 

I have no issues in VR with 0,5PD and per eye 500% - otherwise when I try PD1.0 or higher with my settings its a slideshow, as I want to see a bit.

System is an i7 9800k, 64GB, RTX2080ti, DCS is on a M2 SSD, the steam variant on a normal SSD. I rund with about 100-180fps in 2D and only possibility to see targets in 2D longrange is via sharpening and turning down the details and resolution. The fact that with zooming planes and trails disappear is a very strange behavior only in 2D. How do you explain this?

Settings 2d 2021-03-24 15_54_00-Digital Combat Simulator.png

Settings VR 2021-03-24 15_54_50-Digital Combat Simulator.png

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2 minutes ago, Docsnuggles said:

I have no issues in VR with 0,5PD and per eye 500% - otherwise when I try PD1.0 or higher with my settings its a slideshow, as I want to see a bit.

System is an i7 9800k, 64GB, RTX2080ti, DCS is on a M2 SSD, the steam variant on a normal SSD. I rund with about 100-180fps in 2D and only possibility to see targets in 2D longrange is via sharpening and turning down the details and resolution. The fact that with zooming planes and trails disappear is a very strange behavior only in 2D. How do you explain this?

Settings 2d 2021-03-24 15_54_00-Digital Combat Simulator.png

Settings VR 2021-03-24 15_54_50-Digital Combat Simulator.png


Have you tried to run the non-steam variant?

Im struggling to understand your issues- You say that you have no issues in VR but trails disappear in 2D? ie running it with trackIr or just on a monitor?

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4 minutes ago, StevanJ said:


Have you tried to run the non-steam variant?

Im struggling to understand your issues- You say that you have no issues in VR but trails disappear in 2D? ie running it with trackIr or just on a monitor?

Yes I run both versions as you thought; I have a Steam version (stable) on my normal SSD and the ED OB version on a M2 SSD. I run both in VR and in 2D with TrackIR, and the spotting issues are there since I play this game. When you use the zoom in 2D (TrackIR, no VR) things appear and disappear. There is also a nice thread about this buggy behaviour on reddit. I just tested it again and its also here still active, its a bit annoying.

 

 


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6 minutes ago, Docsnuggles said:

Yes I run both versions as you thought; I have a Steam version (stable) on my normal SSD and the ED OB version on a M2 SSD. I run both in VR and in 2D with TrackIR, and the spotting issues are there since I play this game. When you use the zoom in 2D (TrackIR, no VR) things appear and disappear. There is also a nice thread about this buggy behaviour on reddit. I just tested it again and its also here still active, its a bit annoying.

 

 

 


Can you please take a video with Alt F9? I still dont know what you mean.

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1 minute ago, Docsnuggles said:

just look at the reddit post i linked, it's still the same here.


Ive seen it, but its two years old.
The issue in the video is that he has the wrong settings.

Is this the only issue you have when spotting?
You know you have a radar right?

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1 minute ago, StevanJ said:


Ive seen it, but its two years old.
The issue in the video is that he has the wrong settings.

Is this the only issue you have when spotting?
You know you have a radar right?

The same issue is still active today; I think you don't want to get it. You zoom in, and the plane appears - disappears, there is something that is called "dogfight" inside visual range. I know how to use the radar, but this is a visual issue. I say the car is broken that I bought and you want to tell me to take a taxi? 😄 Come on - this issue is there for years now, and ED is ignoring it ...

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1 minute ago, Docsnuggles said:

The same issue is still active today; I think you don't want to get it. You zoom in, and the plane appears - disappears, there is something that is called "dogfight" inside visual range. I know how to use the radar, but this is a visual issue. I say the car is broken that I bought and you want to tell me to take a taxi? 😄 Come on - this issue is there for years now, and ED is ignoring it ...


No, i get it.. Its draw distance thats why ive opted for lower settings and an 'extreme' draw distance -visibility range.
And its why i asked for a video. I dont know in what instance id need to spot an airplane from the parking spot of a airport.


If youre in the air and point your TGP at the ground and swing it upwards to the horizon, pretty soon youll hit the limit of visibility range, and all youll see is a line of the horizon as it loads (around 45-50 miles for me).

If youre flying and 'the plane disappears' does it disappear off radar?
Im struggling to understand why youd be dogfighting at over 50 miles unless youre in the Tomcat and youre sending a phoenix. In which case i guess youd never see the plane anyway.
Spotting issues? Fair enough if youre upclose. But highlighting a complaint thats over 2 years old, doesnt really help unless you can explain why you'd want to see that plane while sitting on a parking spot at an airport.

Were on a limitation of a program, which is why is said:
 

'I think until technology catches up to the game, or the games optimised to the technology, you're best just moving to 'lower settings' to get the best out of the game in VR.
If youre unprepared to adjust settings to improve gameplay, then theres not much else you can do other than turn the game off.'

While id love a 200 mile visibility range, and the ability to play this game in 12k on a VR headset that runs at 600hz. Were just not there yet in terms of technology..

We possibily could have a longer draw distance one day, when Nvidia release 5090ti's, and im running a 16th gen i9 with 2 tbs RAM, but until we do, I think its best trying to be realistic.
If there was issues within visual range while in a 'close up dog fight', then yeah.. Maybe i could see you point.
But even when those issues, arrive they can be resolved just by adjusting the settings in the game.

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14 minutes ago, StevanJ said:


No, i get it.. Its draw distance thats why ive opted for lower settings and an 'extreme' draw distance -visibility range.
And its why i asked for a video. I dont know in what instance id need to spot an airplane from the parking spot of a airport.


If youre in the air and point your TGP at the ground and swing it upwards to the horizon, pretty soon youll hit the limit of visibility range, and all youll see is a line of the horizon as it loads (around 45-50 miles for me).

If youre flying and 'the plane disappears' does it disappear off radar?
Im struggling to understand why youd be dogfighting at over 50 miles unless youre in the Tomcat and youre sending a phoenix. In which case i guess youd never see the plane anyway.
Spotting issues? Fair enough if youre upclose. But highlighting a complaint thats over 2 years old, doesnt really help unless you can explain why you'd want to see that plane while sitting on a parking spot at an airport.

Were on a limitation of a program, which is why is said:
 

'I think until technology catches up to the game, or the games optimised to the technology, you're best just moving to 'lower settings' to get the best out of the game in VR.
If youre unprepared to adjust settings to improve gameplay, then theres not much else you can do other than turn the game off.'

While id love a 200 mile visibility range, and the ability to play this game in 12k on a VR headset that runs at 600hz. Were just not there yet in terms of technology..

We possibily could have a longer draw distance one day, when Nvidia release 5090ti's, and im running a 16th gen i9 with 2 tbs RAM, but until we do, I think its best trying to be realistic.
If there was issues within visual range while in a 'close up dog fight', then yeah.. Maybe i could see you point.
But even when those issues, arrive they can be resolved just by adjusting the settings in the game.

sorry, this is leading nowhere; you are just not willing to understand that planes pop up and disappear while zooming in and out, and if you dont know what a range for visual engagements is, ok. I refer to visual engagements where planes appear and disappear, its an old issue - if you dont get it - ok. Go on and use your radar bvr fights... fin.

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2 minutes ago, Docsnuggles said:

sorry, this is leading nowhere; you are just not willing to understand that planes pop up and disappear while zooming in and out, and if you dont know what a range for visual engagements is, ok. I refer to visual engagements where planes appear and disappear, its an old issue - if you dont get it - ok. Go on and use your radar bvr fights... fin.


Im trying to help- But you arent willing to;

Make a video- to show in what instance it would be needed. To see if it needs priority over another bug.
Make a video- to show at which range the bandit 'disappears', to promote a fix.
Make a video- to highlight your settings to allow others to compare their (and mine) machines to gather some data into how/where and why it happens to see if there are any ways to see instant visual improvements..

You havent even posted a track.
If you arent willing to work towards highlighting the issue, then perhaps you shouldnt be posting here in the first place..
Ive tried to replicate this, and yet i cant.
I dont think you should be highlighting the issue in the first place if you cant just do a few things towards helping others who might have the same issue..
Its not personal, but you arent really doing anything creative except highlighting a complaint from two years ago thats out of date, and comes with comments to which seem to resolve the complaint when addressing in game settings..

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I remember a few months back to the "GLORY DAYS" of the VR spotting when it was good and usefull. Big Happy shiny single pixels blobs... Those were the days, you could see stuff, it was like a blind man seeing for the first time. Dogfights in VR became possible, glorious even, I flew mig21's, F5's and it was competitive. And then, the news came. <cue quacking voice> ITS A BUG </cue quacking voice>... Crap... And then it got changed to the current thing, where I can see a guy a 20mi but not at 8... And I'm back to the BVR lobfest cuz 1's blind, 2's blind, 3 can't see shit capn...

 

TBH it looked like shit for ground targets, but for AIR targets, IDK, seemed pretty good to me...

 

my .02...

 

 


Edited by Harlikwin
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On 2/28/2021 at 11:16 AM, Snapage said:

I have noticed planes appearing and disappearing at long distance lately. No idea why. Only happens at long distance while they are small dots. Zooming does not seem to help.

Sometimes if You zoom inYou loose it and if You zoom out You regain it. Other time if You look through the propeller disk You see it, if You look outside not...
I think that the rendering of the plane at varoious distance must be reworked and even the "bled with the landscape" effect. I didn't know if it is possible with the actual graphic engine or it must be rewritten, in any case I would prefer more struggle there than in Volumetric clouds (wonderful but I can live whithout for now...I can't live without seeing cotacts 😄 ) or others things like Dinamic Campaign etc. etc. 👍

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  • ED Team

please keep the discussion civil, I have deleted posts with name calling. 

 

thanks

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On 1/4/2021 at 10:44 AM, Whisper said:

The change from "easily visible" to "non existent" in VR is particularly easy to spot when you use the max zoom on a pixel you clearly see from far away : the render engine considers that with that level of zoom, this impostor bigger model isn't needed anymore, and suddenly, there absolutely nothing in the air. When releasing the zoom button, the contact is back there, magically.

Which means that there is a whole mid-range in VR where targets are simply not there. You can keep track of the contact ALL YOU WANT, you'll lose it when it enters this range. You'll have then to play with the 2 zoom levels to try acquiring it back, which is not that simple since your focal point seems offset between the different zoom levels, so you're not looking at the exact same place depending on your zoom level.

That said, the situation has improved dramatically from a year back, tbh. Yes, I keep losing track of targets, but most of the time it does seem legit to me, due to my own airframe, movement, eye breaking contact, etc.... That automatic contact disappearance behaviour isn't really happening on such a critical phase of an encounter, and you can acquire it back most of the time.

 

Ofc it could be better and hopefully ED is continuing trying to improve, but, at least in VR, I don't feel so blind. I don't know the situation on flat screen though....

 

It's not only in VR that planes incl. contrails disappear; just setup an AWACS and fly along it and zoom. it's there, it's no... depending on angle it will completely vanish and only popup when zooming. I use 2D for learning & ME and VR afterwards when finished. But the complete disappearing is in 2D more visible.

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On 3/24/2021 at 11:24 PM, Harlikwin said:

I remember a few months back to the "GLORY DAYS" of the VR spotting when it was good and usefull. Big Happy shiny single pixels blobs... Those were the days, you could see stuff, it was like a blind man seeing for the first time. Dogfights in VR became possible, glorious even, I flew mig21's, F5's and it was competitive. And then, the news came. <cue quacking voice> ITS A BUG </cue quacking voice>... Crap... And then it got changed to the current thing, where I can see a guy a 20mi but not at 8... And I'm back to the BVR lobfest cuz 1's blind, 2's blind, 3 can't see shit capn...

 

TBH it looked like shit for ground targets, but for AIR targets, IDK, seemed pretty good to me...

 

my .02...

 

 

 

it seems that some people don't see it - i wonder if they all fly with dots on.

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