Jump to content

Flight Model Characteristics - Will I be disappointed?


Dangerzone

Recommended Posts

I will say that while I found the module to be top notch quality and the flight model seeming very realistic to me. 

At first I absolutely hated flying because I always got into vrs. 

That's why I spent an enormous amount of time with the huey instead. 

Then I picked the mi8 again when the hind announcements came in because I wanted to learn to fly this bird because I believe the hind would have been quite similar in terms of flying it. 

Yes, just like you I was scared that because I hated flying the MI8, I would also hate the hind. 

Well, let me tell you this. First I flew the mi8 like the huey, crashed a lot, then I took every thing about approach when landing a bit slower (I start to slow down on landing earlier than in the huey) and simply doing this made me feel as if I could control the helicopter exactly like I wanted it to. 

Right now it is my favorite helo to fly, even a bit more than the huey. 

Your thread is really interesting because I feel as if I had the same experience as you.

So, even though, I am biased, I can tell you that the mi8 might very well grow on you just as it did on me. 

 


Edited by notproplayer3

Full fidelity su27/mig29 ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Appreciate the replies - especially the ones that seem to reflect my thoughts. I probably won't grab the mi8 at this stage, I might jump straight to the Hind when it's out (unless there's another free-to-try period before hand where I'll give it more of a crack), but if people are enjoying it as much as the Huey after they were hating it first... that gives me some hope for the Hind.

 

Although now that we have the Kiowa, Hind and AH64 all being released this year... it could be a struggle to get all 3, I might have to priorities. 

 

And yeah - I'm probably one of those that fly right at the limit in the Huey, outside of it's normal operating range. For me, it's the thrill of the ride and I know IRL flying like that will likely lead to a shortened life. (As it does in DCS too). 😄

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

but if people are enjoying it as much as the Huey after they were hating it first

Just look at yourself and what you want to do instead of listening to other people to make up your mind.
I always loved the Mi-8, and I still fly it. Yes obviously you have to fly it differently than a Huey, just as you don't fly a C-17 as if it was an F-22...

The Mi-8 is a lot faster, has a much longer range, can fly higher, can carry more, has more redundancy, and is more stable.

  • Like 2
Spoiler

Ryzen 9 5900X | 64GB G.Skill TridentZ 3600 | Gigabyte RX6900XT | ASUS ROG Strix X570-E GAMING | Samsung 990Pro 2TB + 960Pro 1TB NMVe | HP Reverb G2
Pro Flight Trainer Puma | VIRPIL MT-50CM2+3 base / CM2 x2 grip with 200 mm S-curve extension + CM3 throttle + CP2/3 + FSSB R3L + VPC Rotor TCS Plus base with SharKa-50 grip mounted on Monstertech MFC-1 | TPR rudder pedals

OpenXR | PD 1.0 | 100% render resolution | DCS "HIGH" preset

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/5/2021 at 7:12 AM, Sceptre said:

it's extremely fast in a straight line (190knots+) and turns like an aircraft carrier at speed. it's not nimble at all, but this is just part of its charm🙂

 

One funny thing of the aircraft carriers is that they are sometimes faster than any other ship in a fleet, and their rudder authority is so huge that they can perform turns faster and in smaller radius compared their visual appearance.

 

https://youtu.be/EtkpDV6Gq0c

 

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Fri13 said:

 

One funny thing of the aircraft carriers is that they are sometimes faster than any other ship in a fleet, and their rudder authority is so huge that they can perform turns faster and in smaller radius compared their visual appearance.

 

https://youtu.be/EtkpDV6Gq0c

 

Watching that jet on the aircraft carrier as it turns reminds me of a bee that landed on my car windshield when I was at stoplights try and hang on after I took off from the lights again. 😄

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
6 hours ago, SchwappingMags said:

Why did u find mi-8 unenjoyable to fly? I love how the mi-8 flies, its just so stable, smooth. Its heavy so its hard for beginners to handle, but if you got enough hours to get the hang of it, its the most satisfying helicopter to fly.

 

I enjoy the 'fly by the seat of your pants' type flying I can get with the UH-1, or Gazelle. I found the mi-8 to be less enjoyable for what I (personally) enjoy flying helicopters for.

 

The mi-8 seemed more like a heavy airliner, rather than a attack aircraft and I was wondering if the hind would be similar. 

 

That's not a critique of the module or flight characteristics at all - it's just that I didn't enjoy the differences between the other helicopters I've flown. It may be if I spend more time I could learn to enjoy it. I wouldn't have thought I'd enjoy flying cargo - but the enjoyment I've gotten out of the Hercules mod, even though it's a slow heavy beast has been quite significant.

 

But I was chasing information for as things currently sit - with what I enjoy now - so I don't have the wrong expectations of what the hind may or may not be.  So I was simply querying from the perspective whether I should consider it, or the AH-64D or Kiowa that is coming - and for my taste it seems as though I'm better not pre-ordering but waiting until it's released and I get a chance to try before committing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also enjoy the more playful flying you can do with light helicopters, but the lack of SAS in the Huey makes me motion sick after longer flights, especially in SP campaigns that always make you fly quite a bit faster than the normal cruising speed.

 

I get a lot of satisfaction of doing precision flying in the Mi-8, and because of its stability even at high speed, it doesn't make my brain go whacky...

  • Like 1
Spoiler

Ryzen 9 5900X | 64GB G.Skill TridentZ 3600 | Gigabyte RX6900XT | ASUS ROG Strix X570-E GAMING | Samsung 990Pro 2TB + 960Pro 1TB NMVe | HP Reverb G2
Pro Flight Trainer Puma | VIRPIL MT-50CM2+3 base / CM2 x2 grip with 200 mm S-curve extension + CM3 throttle + CP2/3 + FSSB R3L + VPC Rotor TCS Plus base with SharKa-50 grip mounted on Monstertech MFC-1 | TPR rudder pedals

OpenXR | PD 1.0 | 100% render resolution | DCS "HIGH" preset

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since getting VR, I've been enjoying the helicopters almost exclusively. I can confirm what Raven is saying, the Huey while more nimble is quite a bit harder on the "senses". Both helicopters can be flown by seat of the pants (especially in VR), although the Hip is more unforgivable if you get into trouble. 

 

I hardly look at gauges anymore except when I'm very close to a stable hover in either helicopter. 


Edited by Lurker

Specs: Win10, i5-13600KF, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The mi-24 is a stable gun platform.

The wings, the position of the pods/cannon compared to the centre of gravity and its asymmetrical shape all mean its trimmed to have the nose pointing straight when you are going at attack speed. And when you fire the nose will not lift off target. 

As long as you fly at the correct speed. With the ball centred (in trim) then the mi-24 will shoot very accurately. With little muzzle climb.

The mi-8 in comparison is pretty poorly trimmed for attack. When you fire the weapons it causes the nose to move a lot. Because the pods are off the centre of gravity. especially if you fire the cannon pods.

When you fly the mi-8 the nose will often not be straight, even though you have the ball centred so the aircraft is flying in trim, but you will still have the tail and nose off to one side. So to aim and fire you need to be out of trim (to bring the sight on target). Which also makes the guns wander all over the sky under recoil.

The mi-24 fixes both these issues to give a very stable and straight shooting platform.

But it only works at the correct speed.

As a transport the mi 8 is trimmed differently so it is better as a transport. Nice in the hover and easier to land. And can handle different loads/weights and speeds

The mi-24 is far more focused. For shooting straight and handling recoil.

Which makes it worse in some regimes of flight. Like the hover. When you are far outside the speed the entire airframe is trimmed for.

 

So as long as you fly the mi-24 as its designed to fly, you will enjoy its accuracy.

 

The mi-24 has shorter blades than the mi-8 but they are wider in chord and the Rotor RPM is increased. To give a higher top speed.

Speed is life and other peoples death in an mi-24

none of this hovering behind trees of the attack helicopter generation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

My Rig: AM5 7950X, 32GB DDR5 6000, M2 SSD, EVGA 1080 Superclocked, Warthog Throttle and Stick, MFG Crosswinds, Oculus Rift.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Quadg said:

The mi-24 is far more focused. For shooting straight and handling recoil.

Which makes it worse in some regimes of flight. Like the hover. When you are far outside the speed the entire airframe is trimmed for.

 

Interesting read.

Do you know what are this drawbacks in hover? Is that just lower lift due to wings disturbing the airflow, or some unstability?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bies said:

 

Interesting read.

Do you know what are this drawbacks in hover? Is that just lower lift due to wings disturbing the airflow, or some unstability?

 

I believe it just can't hover for as long as, let's say, a Mi-8 can, since it needs a higher power setting and it fatigues the engines. I never heard any Mi-24 pilots call it unstable in hover.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bies said:

 

Interesting read.

Do you know what are this drawbacks in hover? Is that just lower lift due to wings disturbing the airflow, or some unstability?

 

That's the main issue precisely. Another is that the Mi24 is heavier (empty weight) while having the same engines. 


Edited by Lurker

Specs: Win10, i5-13600KF, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Once it's out, wait for the first free trial and try it out. That's what I'm planning to do, especially since I'm too cheap to but at full price, so I'm gonna wait anyway (and let you guys play paying beta testers). 🙂 Assuming the first version doesn't come out with the FM massively off, you can get a good idea from a trial. The ED had, hopefully, learned their lesson with the Viper.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why the internet is broken?

Because everyone seems to write "things" like facts.

 

😄 

I laugh my self out reading some "things" around here about helicopters.

ASUS N552VX | i7-6700HQ @ 2.59GHz | 16 GB DDR3 | NVIDIA GF GTX 950M 4 Gb | 250 Gb SSD | 1 Tb HD SATA II Backup | TIR4 | Microsoft S. FF 2+X52 Throttle+Saitek Pedals | Win 10 64 bits

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aleksandr ‘PilotMi8’ Podvoisky, lead Mi-24 developer on hover:

Q: How is the Mi-24 in a hover? Many say it can’t hover for long and the engines don’t have enough power for that.
A: Those are just fairytales. If you fill up the feed tank and the temperature is around 0ºC, the Mi-24 can hover on cruise power all the way until fuel runs out. On take-off power, you can hover for six minutes. You can do it for longer until they break, but in real life if you exceed those limits (like hovering for an hour on take-off power) the engines will be removed from service after that flight. For example, my comrades when we flew in Chechnya said all flights were made on take-off power because you want to have speed and power at hand in combat. The engines don’t fall apart after 6 minutes, or even 1 hour, the death is gradual. The blades on the turbine slowly change geometry and lose their aerodynamic properties, the momentum on the turbine drops and power becomes less available. For the pilot, you’ll see the EGT increase over the course of a month for the same setting. After six months flying like that, a helicopter that works on such conditions will have eaten through engines meant to last for a year. By then it won’t fly well, won’t hover for long and so on. In game we can add some limits, but in real life I can tell you I’ve never ever heard of an engine failure on the TV-117 engine that did not have an external cause.

https://stormbirds.blog/2021/01/09/new-dcs-mi-24p-information-translated-from-russian-interview/

 

  • Like 4

i7 8700k@4.7, 1080ti, DDR4 32GB, 2x SSD , HD 2TB, W10, ASUS 27", TrackIr5, TMWH, X-56, GProR.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The stories about hovering issues with the Mi-24 are probably from Afghan. Hot and high conditions in places like that aren't good for any helo, and the Hind is rather heavy, so in order to get a stable hover you'd have to really push the engines to their limits. In fact, a rolling takeoff was often necessary when flying fully loaded. The Hind was designed for use in Russia and Europe, after all, and even Chechenya, while certainly high, isn't quite as hot as Afghanistan is. This would also be made much worse by worn out engines, if they flew the Hinds in Afghan the same way they did in Chechenya (highly likely, given the conditions), they would be worn out real soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

The stories about hovering issues with the Mi-24 are probably from Afghan. Hot and high conditions in places like that aren't good for any helo, and the Hind is rather heavy, so in order to get a stable hover you'd have to really push the engines to their limits. In fact, a rolling takeoff was often necessary when flying fully loaded. The Hind was designed for use in Russia and Europe,

It makes sense, Mi-24 had been designed for operations over European Plain, Fulda Gap.

Not for Afganistan, mountainous and hot it would strain every helicopter.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/17/2021 at 11:09 AM, notproplayer3 said:

Well, let me tell you this. First I flew the mi8 like the huey, crashed a lot, then I took every thing about approach when landing a bit slower (I start to slow down on landing earlier than in the huey) and simply doing this made me feel as if I could control the helicopter exactly like I wanted it to. 

 

  You can still fly the Hip really aggressively, but you have to be VERY quick to respond to the shudder as it starts entering VRS, if you quickly bump the collective just as it starts (and by bump I mean slam the throttle forward a couple inches) you can go from high speed to hover as quickly as desired without losing any altitude. But if you're off a second in your response, or don't feed it enough collective when you do respond, then you're in trouble

  • Like 2

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, zhukov032186 said:

 

  You can still fly the Hip really aggressively, but you have to be VERY quick to respond to the shudder as it starts entering VRS, if you quickly bump the collective just as it starts (and by bump I mean slam the throttle forward a couple inches) you can go from high speed to hover as quickly as desired without losing any altitude. But if you're off a second in your response, or don't feed it enough collective when you do respond, then you're in trouble

Interesting you mentioned that, yes indeed, but like you said, it is hard to pull off. Just recently I realized that I could fly well enough to slow down like a huey but it took me first learning how to fly nice and slow before moving on to more aggressive techniques.

Full fidelity su27/mig29 ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, notproplayer3 said:

Interesting you mentioned that, yes indeed, but like you said, it is hard to pull off. Just recently I realized that I could fly well enough to slow down like a huey but it took me first learning how to fly nice and slow before moving on to more aggressive techniques.

 

Like most things that take a bit of skill. It's a gradual thing. The more you do it, the better at it you become. 


Edited by Lurker
  • Like 1

Specs: Win10, i5-13600KF, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Mi-8 truly is a joy to fly once you're used to it, and like mentioned earlier you can get away with quite a lot as long as you stay ahead of the helicopter.

It's just about building muscle memory and knowing what to look out for...

  • Like 2
Spoiler

Ryzen 9 5900X | 64GB G.Skill TridentZ 3600 | Gigabyte RX6900XT | ASUS ROG Strix X570-E GAMING | Samsung 990Pro 2TB + 960Pro 1TB NMVe | HP Reverb G2
Pro Flight Trainer Puma | VIRPIL MT-50CM2+3 base / CM2 x2 grip with 200 mm S-curve extension + CM3 throttle + CP2/3 + FSSB R3L + VPC Rotor TCS Plus base with SharKa-50 grip mounted on Monstertech MFC-1 | TPR rudder pedals

OpenXR | PD 1.0 | 100% render resolution | DCS "HIGH" preset

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/20/2021 at 3:58 PM, F1000Starfire said:

I just got the original 1990s Hind simulator from DI on GOG because I've always wanted to try it. The flight model on realistic is challenging, will the DCS Hind be sort of similar in flight characteristics?

 

I have no idea how that FM relates to the helicopter FMs in DCS World, but I think it's safe to assume that it's not close to the level of detail on flight models we do get in DCS World. I still believe that the closest thing in feel is going to be the HiP, since they share so many common systems. It's obvously not going to be exactly the same, I personally believe that fully fueled, and armed the Mi24 will be very "piggish" in how it handles, even more so than the Mi8, but that this will change with speed and that the helicopter will be very enjoyable to fly at cruise speed or faster. 

Specs: Win10, i5-13600KF, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...