Question about the current SLAM

[Joni]

In Wags instructional video he says that the slam isn't as accurate as a jdam and that we should use the man in the loop option for it to hit precise.

 

There are two things I don't fully understand about this:

 

1. If the weapon has both GPS and INS, why would it be any different than JDAM?
2. In DCS I can hit a small tank from 60nm without any MITL. Why is that if it isn't supposed to be that accurate?

 

Thanks!

[GGTharos]

7 minutes ago, Joni said:

In Wags instructional video he says that the slam isn't as accurate as a jdam and that we should use the man in the loop option for it to hit precise.

 

There are two things I don't fully understand about this:

 

1. If the weapon has both GPS and INS, why would it be any different than JDAM?

 

It doesn't have GPS.  A later version may, but not this one.

 

Quote

1. In DCS I can hit a small tank from 60nm without any MITL. Why is that if it isn't supposed to be that accurate?

 

Because you're playing a game?  With what weapon?  Same with maverick force-correlate mode, people use it to hit  tanks from twice the range than with an lock, but IRL you'd never be able to do that - the CEP of force-correlate is so huge that it's only usable against large structures.   At 8nm it's something like 40m (In a circle around the cross), your tank is 6-8m long and 2-3m high (and about as wide), and you need a direct hit.  Not likely to happen IRL - but in DCS, the missile goes exactly where the cross is.

Edited January 11, 2021 by GGTharos

[Joni]

Just now, GGTharos said:

 

It doesn't have GPS.  A later version may, but not this one.

 

 

Because you're playing a game?  With what weapon?  Same with maverick force-correlate mode, people use it to hit  tanks from twice the range than with an lock, but IRL you'd never be able to do that - the CEP of force-correlate is so huge that it's only usable against large structures.   At 8nm it's something like 40m (In a circle around the cross), your tank is 5-7m long and 2-3m high, and you need a direct hit.  Not likely to happen.

 

It doesn't have GPS? Wags says it does that's why I assumed it did. Are you sure?

 

I know I'm playing a game, no need to be that guy, just curious about the facts and the implementations thanks.

[GGTharos]

I was wrong, it does have GPS.  But in that case you'd have to know the exact coordinates of your target, and the CEP is still too large to hit a small target directly.  You could hit a building with GPS only, but a vehicle would be a lot less likely.

 

Don't quote me on this, I'm going by memory - the SLAM was basically created by using the walleye DL and maverick seeker because the USN needed a stand-off weapon.  It's basically a long range maverick with a large warhead.  Rough GPS coordinates get it into the ballpark of where you're expecting to find a target, then you guide it in the rest of the way.

Edited January 11, 2021 by GGTharos

[Joni]

41 minutes ago, GGTharos said:

I was wrong, it does have GPS.  But in that case you'd have to know the exact coordinates of your target, and the CEP is still too large to hit a small target directly.  You could hit a building with GPS only, but a vehicle would be a lot less likely.

 

Don't quote me on this, I'm going by memory - the SLAM was basically created by using the walleye DL and maverick seeker because the USN needed a stand-off weapon.  It's basically a long range maverick with a large warhead.  Rough GPS coordinates get it into the ballpark of where you're expecting to find a target, then you guide it in the rest of the way.

 

 

So having GPS isn't a guarantee that the CEP will be the same between different platforms? So JDAM can have GPS and a CEP of 30 while SLAM can also have GPS but a CEP of let's say 100?

 

I'm trying to understand the real life aspect (personal knowledge)and then compare it to how DCS works (so as to have the best experience).

[GGTharos]

30 minutes ago, Joni said:

 

So having GPS isn't a guarantee that the CEP will be the same between different platforms? So JDAM can have GPS and a CEP of 30 while SLAM can also have GPS but a CEP of let's say 100?

 

I'm trying to understand the real life aspect (personal knowledge)and then compare it to how DCS works (so as to have the best experience).

 

A CEP of 30m hardly guarantees hitting a vehicle.  In fact it makes it pretty unlikely.  It also depends on how much precision you can input the coordinates with and how the weapon is designed.  If it's designed to use the seeker for terminal, there's nothing you can do about it.

[Joni]

3 minutes ago, GGTharos said:

 

A CEP of 30m hardly guarantees hitting a vehicle.  In fact it makes it pretty unlikely.  It also depends on how much precision you can input the coordinates with and how the weapon is designed.  If it's designed to use the seeker for terminal, there's nothing you can do about it.

 

Roger.

 

I remember the first time it was implemented in the hornet (in dcs) that the long shots from more than 20nm always ended up missing if not using terminal guidance. But now you can hit a dove from 60nm.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Joni

[GGTharos]

... with what weapon though?  Even modern GPS munitions aren't that accurate, with a really good CEP of say 5 meters or a bit less, but this is very ideal and normally it's considered to be 'less than 11m' ... unclass knowledge of course.

[Joni]

3 minutes ago, GGTharos said:

... with what weapon though?  Even modern GPS munitions aren't that accurate, with a really good CEP of say 5 meters or a bit less, but this is very ideal and normally it's considered to be 'less than 11m' ... unclass knowledge of course.

 

I meant SLAM.

 

JDAM always hit a small tank 100% of the times since day 1 in DCS.

[toilet2000]

2 hours ago, Joni said:

In Wags instructional video he says that the slam isn't as accurate as a jdam and that we should use the man in the loop option for it to hit precise.

 

There are two things I don't fully understand about this:

 

1. If the weapon has both GPS and INS, why would it be any different than JDAM?
2. In DCS I can hit a small tank from 60nm without any MITL. Why is that if it isn't supposed to be that accurate?

 

Thanks!

Not all INS + GPS navigation systems are made equal... Especially when the tech was pretty new and it's made to be blown up. Even more so when you're using mostly off-the-shelf components from other (older) projects, like the Walleyes and the Maverick. Keep in mind the SLAM is a very old missile made from even older components.

[Bunny Clark]

Not all GPS systems are created equal. My phone has GPS, but it sometimes can't even tell me accurately what block I'm on, I wouldn't trust it to guide an explosive device. The AGM-84E SLAM entered service a full decade before JDAM did, I imagine they made some improvements. 

 

Also, I'm not sure GPS guided weapons should really be accurate enough to take out tanks realistically. The JDAM has a realized CEP of around 7 meters, which is good, but still not good enough to reliably hit a tank sized object. There's a reason the GBU-12 is still around (other than cost), and that the GBU-54 was developed. LGBs seem to still be the weapon of choice when extreme precision is needed. 

[Joni]

Thanks guys!

 

Let's hope ED can bring the SLAM back to the state it was when first released. It is too accurate now.

 

 

Regards.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Joni

[j-tk]

Me and my buddy are actually doing a new "how to SLAM"  in the AM.  Flew about 30 missions today to work out bugs and kinks not only with missions, but the weapons themselves. 

 

When they work right, it looks like this:

 

 

[*Aquila*]

The SLAM wasn’t designed to hunt vehicles but high value structures. Keep in mind that GPS signal is something vulnerable. Those weapons were designed to be used against the USSR, not only against Saddam’s Iraq.