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Corsair Hype!


Rakkis

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Looking forward to the Corsair, would prefer the early Marines version as this is the Blacksheep version. interesting article comparing the FW-190A4 to the Corsair regarding manoeuvrability - the Corsair was regarded as the better dog fighter.
 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/ptr-1107.pdf

 

Eric Brown compared many planes in Duels in the Sky, and I can’t quite recall the comparison of the Corsair versus the Bf-109 G6, but have a feeling that he would prefer the Corsair 

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1 hour ago, Lynchsl62 said:

Looking forward to the Corsair, would prefer the early Marines version as this is the Blacksheep version. interesting article comparing the FW-190A4 to the Corsair regarding manoeuvrability - the Corsair was regarded as the better dog fighter.
 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/ptr-1107.pdf

 

Eric Brown compared many planes in Duels in the Sky, and I can’t quite recall the comparison of the Corsair versus the Bf-109 G6, but have a feeling that he would prefer the Corsair 


I don’t have the particular book but I thought Brown disliked the early F4U versions and hated the late models, he much preferred the F6F. 


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1 hour ago, Mogster said:

I don’t have the particular book but I thought Brown disliked the early F4U versions and hated the late models, he much preferred the F6F. 

I no longer have the book, but did read it a long time ago. From recollection you are right, he preferred the F6F over the Corsair. I do recall that in the duel between the F6F and the Bf-109G he gave the result to the F6F. I think he disliked the Bf-109 more than the Corsair.

 

Eric Brown preference was always the FW-190 and always rated this highly along with the Spitfire as the two equal best fighters of the war. 
 

The Fleet Air Arm adopted the curved approach to the carrier which allowed the Fleet Air Arm to use the Corsair from carriers before the US Navy. The Fleet Air Arm did use the Corsair in Europe mainly in anti shipping missions as fighter cover along the Norwegian coast in the summer of 1944, but I do not believe they ever engaged the Luftwaffe there. 

In any case I am looking forward to this iconic fighter and fighter bomber that served in WW2 and Korea being added to the environment. 

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1 hour ago, Lynchsl62 said:

I no longer have the book, but did read it a long time ago. From recollection you are right, he preferred the F6F over the Corsair. I do recall that in the duel between the F6F and the Bf-109G he gave the result to the F6F. I think he disliked the Bf-109 more than the Corsair.

 

Eric Brown preference was always the FW-190 and always rated this highly along with the Spitfire as the two equal best fighters of the war. 
 

The Fleet Air Arm adopted the curved approach to the carrier which allowed the Fleet Air Arm to use the Corsair from carriers before the US Navy. The Fleet Air Arm did use the Corsair in Europe mainly in anti shipping missions as fighter cover along the Norwegian coast in the summer of 1944, but I do not believe they ever engaged the Luftwaffe there. 

In any case I am looking forward to this iconic fighter and fighter bomber that served in WW2 and Korea being added to the environment. 


As primarily a test pilot I think Brown’s opinions also largely take safety into account. That’s a big part of being a test pilot, “I may be the aviation GOAT but how would ordinary mortals deal with these aircraft?” 
 

His opinions draw both respect and derision on warbird forums, but he did fly the aircraft and write about it, almost no one else did. He also disliked the P38, and the 109, however the only 109G he flew was a Wild Sau aircraft and had gunpods fitted throughout the trial iirc.

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I think that more recent views of Eric Brown detect a bias, he certainly was a naval aviator first and foremost and the Corsair was not rated fo carrier operation till 44 in Fleet Air Arm - long after its introduction in the Pacific. However as a pilot who not only debriefed the Luftwaffe, but also flew several poor quality aircraft after the war including the He-162 and I believe the Me-163 I can understand the safet bias, flying planes that were put together by slave labour would require an inherent safetty perspective.

 

Either way he occupies an almost unique position in aviation history and experience

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Eric Browns detailed comments about the Corsair in "Wings of the Navy", another book by him, are very enlightening and his dislike for the plane indeed stems from the fact that it required very experienced pilots to operate them safely, not from any perceived performance deficits in comparison with other planes. If someone looks at the long list of often fatal accidents caused by young, hot headed wartime pilots he certainly has a point.

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3 hours ago, Cunctator said:

Eric Browns detailed comments about the Corsair in "Wings of the Navy", another book by him, are very enlightening and his dislike for the plane indeed stems from the fact that it required very experienced pilots to operate them safely, not from any perceived performance deficits in comparison with other planes. If someone looks at the long list of often fatal accidents caused by young, hot headed wartime pilots he certainly has a point.


Brown’s role often was carrier certification of aircraft so it makes sense he’d always have that hat on when evaluating carrier aircraft. He was viewed as an authority, even into old age, he was employed as a consultant with LM on the F35 iirc.

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Something above ^^ about Corsair joining the FAA in 1944, but pretty sure I’ve read accounts of Norway ops against Tirpitz from 1943… and unless caught totally surprised I can’t imagine that the Luftwaffe wouldn’t have responded 😮

 

Re Brown, I read an account of catapult trials in the US where he horrified American observers by suggesting a cat launch tied up at the dock…

 

… of course, it worked and the USN decided that they also needed steam catapults 😉

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48 minutes ago, rkk01 said:

Something above ^^ about Corsair joining the FAA in 1944, but pretty sure I’ve read accounts of Norway ops against Tirpitz from 1943… and unless caught totally surprised I can’t imagine that the Luftwaffe wouldn’t have responded


The Corsair was adopted in 1943 by FAA but it was not till April 44 that it was used in combat operations, this seems reasonable considering the training required for a new aircraft. The operation against Tirpitz was Operation Tungsten and the Wikipedia page states the Luftwaffe was relativity small and short of fuel by this time, again seems reasonable considering that the USAAF had just finished big week operation where the Luftwaffe in the west was largely defeated.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tungsten
 

wikipedia is not always the most accurate source of information 

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What information about FAA strikes against Norway involving Corsair squadrons I could collect from various books over the years:

 

Spoiler
Codename Date Carriers Squadrons Aircraft used Tasks Results achieved Aircraft losses  
                 
Tungsten 03.04.44 Victorious 1834 (14 aircraft) F4U 42 Barracudas   14 hits 4  
      1836 (14 aircraft) F4U 21 Corsairs high cover 1 near miss    
    Searcher   20 Hellcats   (4 - 1.600lb.)    
    Pursuer   10 Wildcats   (11 - 500lb.)    
    Furious            
    Emperor            
    Fencer            
                 
Planet 24.04.44 Victorious 1834 (14 aircraft) F4U     Cancelled owing to bad weather    
      1836 (14 aircraft) F4U   attacks on enemy shipping in Bodo and Rorvik areas Convoy attacked near Bodo, 3 ships sunk, 1 damaged 6  
    Searcher            
    Pursuer            
    Furious            
    Emperor            
    Striker            
                 
Hoops 08.05.44 Emperor 800 F6F (10 aircraft)   attacks on shipping between Gossen and Kristiansand North, Combat with JG 5, 2 Bf 109 and one Fw 190 shot down, 2 Hellcats and 1 Wildcat lost    
      804 F6F (10 aircraft)   as well as strikes against oil tanks at Kjehn and a fish oil factory at Fossevaag      
    Searcher            
    Striker            
                 
Potluck A 14.05.44 Emperor 800 F6F (10 aircraft)   attack on shipping at Rorvik 5 He 115 destroyed on the ground    
      804 F6F (10 aircraft)          
    Striker            
                 
Brawn 15.05.44 Victorious 1834 (14 aircraft) F4U     Attack abandoned on reaching the coast owing to dense low cloud at 1.000 ft 1  
      1836 (14 aircraft) F4U          
    Furious            
                 
Potluck B 16.05.44 Emperor 800 F6F (10 aircraft)   attack on the fish oil factory at Fossevaag two armed trawlers sunk    
      804 F6F (10 aircraft)          
    Striker            
                 
Tiger Claw 28.05.44 Victorious 1834 (14 aircraft) F4U     Cancelled owing to bad weather    
  31.05.44   1836 (14 aircraft) F4U     3 merchant ships near Aalesund    
    Furious            
                 
Mascot 17.07.44 Formidable 1841 (18 aircraft) F4U 44 Barracudas   No hits 2  
    Indefatigable   18 Corsairs high cover, 12 with cameras to photograph the bombing attacks, 6 to strafe 1 Corsair shot down, pilot captured    
    Furious   12 Fireflies        
        18 Hellcats        
  18.07.44       Corsair JT404 of 1841 squadron captured, Emergency landing in a field at Sorvag, Hameroy, near Bodo      
                 
Goodwood I 22.08.44 Formidable 1841 (18 aircraft) F4U 31 Barracudas   Barracudas and Corsairs returned on reaching the coast owing to dense low cloud at 1.500 ft. 2 1 Hellcat
  morning   1842 (12 aircraft) F4U 10 Hellcats   No hits   1 Seafire
    Indefatigable   11 Fireflies        
    Trumpeter   24 Corsairs        
    Furious   8 Seafires (for diversionary attacks), Banak airfield, Kolvik sea plane base one He 115, 2 Bv 138 destroyed    
    Nabob            
                 
Goodwood II 22.08.44 Indefatigable   6 Hellcats   No hits 0  
  afternoon     8 Fireflies        
                 
Goodwood III 24.08.44 Indefatigable   33 Barracudas 1 - 1.600 lb. AP each Two hits 6 2 Hellcat
    Formidable   10 Hellcats 1 - 500 lb. AP each (1 - 1.600 lb.)   4 Corsairs
    Furious   24 Corsairs 5 with 1 - 1.100 lb. AP bomb, rest escort/flak supression (1 - 500 lb.)    
        10 Fireflies        
        8 Seafires attack Banak Airfield      
                 
Goodwood IV 29.08.44 Indefatigable   26 Barracudas 1 - 1.600 lb. AP each No hits 2 1 Firefly
    Formidable   17 Corsairs 2 with 1 – 1.000 lb. AP bomb, rest escort/flak supression     1 Corsair
        7 Hellcats 3 with 500 lb. MC bomb, 4 with target markers in the van      
        10 Fireflies flak supression      
        7 Seafires (for diversionary attacks), Hammerfest      

 

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  • 10 months later...
On 7/17/2021 at 9:32 AM, Mogster said:


As primarily a test pilot I think Brown’s opinions also largely take safety into account. That’s a big part of being a test pilot, “I may be the aviation GOAT but how would ordinary mortals deal with these aircraft?” 

 

"ordinary mortals deal"... when they are seriously fatigued, when parts and systems start to fail on you, when you lose orientation in heavy cloud or bad visibility... when you come back to land after hours of flight and fighting, then survival...  or when you  need to pull lead pursuit, but are wary of the departure characteristics...

 

I've concluded that when the USN selected the legacy Hornet for the future of naval aviation, the predictability, the safe easy flying characteristics were major factors for it's selection... allowing the pilots to concentrate more on the mission, the tasks, the weapons and systems management, and not be always worried every 5 seconds that your aluminum bird was always moments away from trying to kill you!  Contrast that with more difficult and sketchy fighters like the F-104 Starfighter... which turned fighter pilots into test pilots more often than airforces would like to admit!  Test piloting in air combat just seems like a losing proposition to me.

 

Speaking of Corsair hype...

 

... have you guys SEEN the movie trailer that just came out?!?!?!? 

A "MUST WATCH" for everyone in this subforum... actually for everyone on this site!!! 

 

"Devotion"   go to this thread to watch and comment:

 

 

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1 hour ago, Captain Gaming said:

did i miss something? did they say anything or are we grasping at straws again? dont wanna get my hopes up

Nothing in regard to the module itself. Just showing some interest in a movie with Corsairs in it.

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18 minutes ago, Lieuie said:

Nothing in regard to the module itself. Just showing some interest in a movie with Corsairs in it.

oh okay, almost seems like the project is dead. like said, its like this dev doesnt care to talk to the ppl who are suppose to buy. kind of a slap in the face really to us. but thats my opinion and mine alone. 

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4 minutes ago, Captain Gaming said:

oh okay, almost seems like the project is dead. like said, its like this dev doesnt care to talk to the ppl who are suppose to buy. kind of a slap in the face really to us. but thats my opinion and mine alone. 

One of the devs is streaming from time to time how he's working on it...

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35 minutes ago, Captain Gaming said:

oh okay, almost seems like the project is dead. like said, its like this dev doesnt care to talk to the ppl who are suppose to buy. kind of a slap in the face really to us. but thats my opinion and mine alone. 

Yeah I feel you that the silence is kind of disheartening but to be fair Magnitude 3 is far from the only developer to be fairly quiet about their progress with their products.

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58 minutes ago, Captain Gaming said:

oh okay, almost seems like the project is dead. like said, its like this dev doesnt care to talk to the ppl who are suppose to buy. kind of a slap in the face really to us. but thats my opinion and mine alone. 

Seems a fairly infantile approach to life…

The Corsair imagery that has been shown looks pretty well progressed, but I would be more encouraged to see some in game video as well 👍
 

There is also the Essex carrier to consider - whilst it looks good there is undoubtedly a lot of AI asset behaviour to model for the CV… and that’s without any similar input for Japanese assets.

TBH, I hope to see the Corsair this year, but have a sneaky suspicion that the Corsair and WW2 Marianas might be progressing on parallel tracks - we can only hope

 

(and meanwhile, the negative trolling helps nobody 😉)


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