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VR vs a very large monitor with TrackIR


Sparrow_1976

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14 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

🤔

 

Nice video, but to be honest, the range of movement he is showing is pretty much what I can do....and there is no way you can look behind you...he is turning his head to approx 90 degrees each side and occasionally, by bracing his body on the canopy with a free hand or the rail, he leans forward and can turn a small amount more...I think you will find there is still a significant cone of view that you cant access without partially lifting yourself out of the seat and twisting your body right around. If I set up some kind of curved rail anchored to the floor in my pit, I could maybe get some range range of movement, also, perhaps if I was a 30 year old fit and trained pilot, I might have better maneuverability in my body than I currently do as a 60 year old Old fart...

 

All that aside, I still feel doing that in VR is way more immersive and realistic than with track iR.......

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if you want that then this app works like an absolute charm  

 

Norbert Siepenkötter / VRNeckSafer · GitLab

 

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I am happy the way it is, as I said, for me, it feels realistic. 

System specs: PC1 :Scan 3XS Ryzen 5900X, 64GB Corsair veng DDR4 3600, EVGA GTX 3090 Win 10, Quest Pro, Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo monitor. Tir5. PC2 ( Helo) Scan 3XS Intel 9900 K, 32 GB Ram, 2080Ti, 50 inch Phillips monitor

 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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Your personal FOV is something like 180 (a bit more) in the real world your HMD is something like 90-110 depending on your face etc... you physically can't have a "realistic" FOV in a HMD unless you have massively a over flexible torso and neck you would need to turn another 35 degrees left or right to accommodate the increased FOV requirement to provide your full range of view for realistic view...   swivel chairs aside,... 

 

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Of course, I meant that it feels more realistic to me than using a monitor and track iR and as near reality as you can get within the constrains of wearing a HMD! 

System specs: PC1 :Scan 3XS Ryzen 5900X, 64GB Corsair veng DDR4 3600, EVGA GTX 3090 Win 10, Quest Pro, Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo monitor. Tir5. PC2 ( Helo) Scan 3XS Intel 9900 K, 32 GB Ram, 2080Ti, 50 inch Phillips monitor

 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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18 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

Your personal FOV is something like 180 (a bit more) in the real world your HMD is something like 90-110 depending on your face etc... you physically can't have a "realistic" FOV in a HMD unless you have massively a over flexible torso and neck you would need to turn another 35 degrees left or right to accommodate the increased FOV requirement to provide your full range of view for realistic view...   swivel chairs aside,... 

 

I think he and every one on the planet is aware of this lol.

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On 1/17/2021 at 12:50 AM, Sparrow_1976 said:

I would like to know if you think that a large enough monitor, coupled with a TrackIR, can be a valid alternative to vr

 

I've been flying VR for the past 4 years exclusively...., but I always AL-WAYS missed the TrackIR times, particularly that feeling of being physically present in a cockpit - to see my body, legs, hands, checking the real physical knee board, making notes etc etc.Looking at the world through a scuba diver's mask has never been a pleasant experience too, not mentioning other VR related limitations. So, I've decided to fill that gap, and just bought a more less proper gaming TV (Samsung Q80, 50", 4K) and currently building a Hornet cockpit. So far so good. I should add too that it brought me back to the cockpit building process which is an amazing thing :), buttons, switches, panels - endless fun )))


Edited by sea2sky
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6 hours ago, sea2sky said:

 

I've been flying VR for the past 4 years exclusively...., but I always AL-WAYS missed the TrackIR times, particularly that feeling of being physically present in a cockpit - to see my body, legs, hands, checking the real physical knee board, making notes etc etc.Looking at the world through a scuba diver's mask has never been a pleasant experience too, not mentioning other VR related limitations. So, I've decided to fill that gap, and just bought a more less proper gaming TV (Samsung Q80, 50", 4K) and currently building a Hornet cockpit. So far so good. I should add too that it brought me back to the cockpit building process which is an amazing thing :), buttons, switches, panels - endless fun )))

 

 

Yeah, I think once you go to a display that big, the immersion levels rival that of VR, without the negatives. I run a 55" display - in some ways I find it looks far more realistic than VR, as many of the elements in the game (trees, buildings, etc) don't look too good in VR.

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13 hours ago, sea2sky said:

 

I've been flying VR for the past 4 years exclusively...., but I always AL-WAYS missed the TrackIR times, particularly that feeling of being physically present in a cockpit - to see my body, legs, hands, checking the real physical knee board, making notes etc etc.

 

Well it really is a personal thing.  I don't feel 'in the cockpit' at all on a screen (I had a 3 screen setup so big real estate).  VR gives me 3D for real (with proper depth) which makes all the difference to me. Then I really feel in the cockpit and I can see my 3D body in the cockpit and If i get up my chair I instinctively duck my head not to hit the canopy frame 🙂

 


Edited by Brainfreeze

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I started building a cockpit with an 85" Sony 4K TV as the display ... then switched to VR.

VR has less clarity, lower effects quality and lower framerates on even the beefiest machines... but the sense of *being there* in VR, and the ability to really naturally look around and build accurate situation awareness, makes me personally more than happy to make that tradeoff. Actually... that undersells it. 

 

I LOVE VR SO MUCH!!!

 

On 1/17/2021 at 5:16 AM, GregP said:

the center cone of sharp detail on the G2 is frustratingly small. I am considering ordering some of the addon lenses that various sites sell, as this would hopefully at least solve the problem of my glasses getting pushed up against my face while wearing the headset, but I don’t know if it’ll actually make the overall clarity or extent of it better.

 

For what it's worth, the G2 has a very small center spot of high clarity, apparently by design. In contrast the Pimax 8KX headsets have very slightly less center clarity, but nearly 4x area of max clarity. Some people may find that a more comfortable tradeoff.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've been flying DCS in VR for about 15 months or so, first on a Rift S and now on a G2.  I used to play on my 65 inch curved 4k TV with Track IR and I was really happy with that, but once I tried the Rift S I was hooked, and haven't played DCS in pancake mode at all since then. I'm using an RTX 2070 Super GPU and - with the exception of the Syria map which is completely unplayable - getting good results with the G2.

 

However ... I've come to the conclusion that for Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 I need to ditch the VR and go back to the TV.  The trade-off of resolution against immersion is simply too high, I think.

 

While I'm writing, I might just mention that I bought prescription lens inserts for the G2 from VRoptician.com recently. They took about 3 weeks to arrive and I'm very happy with them - in fact I've just ordered lenses for my Quest 2 as well. And, while endorsing kit which I've sourced from Germany, I might as well say how much I like my Monstertech mounts for my Warthog Hotas. They're not cheap, but they're very well made, and I certainly wouldn't want to go back to a throttle and joystick sitting on top of the desk.

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53 minutes ago, Magnate said:

I've been flying DCS in VR for about 15 months or so, first on a Rift S and now on a G2.  I used to play on my 65 inch curved 4k TV with Track IR and I was really happy with that, but once I tried the Rift S I was hooked, and haven't played DCS in pancake mode at all since then. I'm using an RTX 2070 Super GPU and - with the exception of the Syria map which is completely unplayable - getting good results with the G2.

 

However ... I've come to the conclusion that for Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 I need to ditch the VR and go back to the TV.  The trade-off of resolution against immersion is simply too high, I think.

 

While I'm writing, I might just mention that I bought prescription lens inserts for the G2 from VRoptician.com recently. They took about 3 weeks to arrive and I'm very happy with them - in fact I've just ordered lenses for my Quest 2 as well. And, while endorsing kit which I've sourced from Germany, I might as well say how much I like my Monstertech mounts for my Warthog Hotas. They're not cheap, but they're very well made, and I certainly wouldn't want to go back to a throttle and joystick sitting on top of the desk.

 

 

Agreed - with exception of MSFS 2020, I have been pretty happy with it as well for the little time in it. All my focus right now is on the Hornet as I continue learning it and flying in my first campaign.

Fully agree on the Monster Tech Mounts, I have an extended one for my Gunfighter MK III with extension, and the standard one for my Virpil CM3 throttle. They are a quality product, and so quick and easy to put on and take off the desk.

 

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On 1/25/2021 at 2:31 PM, SharpeXB said:

🤔

 

 

Anyone notice his shoulder straps are too loose so he can swivel around?  If he ejects, hes a dead man.

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1 minute ago, Mower said:

 

Anyone notice his shoulder straps are too loose so he can swivel around?  If he ejects, hes a dead man.

I seem to recall reading that part of the ejection sequence includes tightening of the straps to position the pilot correctly, but I may be remembering it wrong.

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30 minutes ago, Mower said:

 

Anyone notice his shoulder straps are too loose so he can swivel around?  If he ejects, hes a dead man.

If he eats a missile he’s dead too. I’m pretty sure the real pilot in this video knows what he’s doing. 
Even in WWI there was a necessary compromise between being safely strapped tight into your cockpit vs the ability to look around and be aware. Being aware was more important. Lots of WWI accounts I’ve read indicated at times these pilots were completely untethered. For landing they were buckled down because a simple nosing over could be fatal otherwise. Flying a pusher aircraft you were better off being unbuckled because in a crash the engine would come forward and crush you. 

36 minutes ago, GIJoe said:

I seem to recall reading that part of the ejection sequence includes tightening of the straps to position the pilot correctly, but I may be remembering it wrong.

There’s a lever to the side of the seat which tightens your shoulder straps. 

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42 minutes ago, GIJoe said:

I seem to recall reading that part of the ejection sequence includes tightening of the straps to position the pilot correctly, but I may be remembering it wrong.

Yep this

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There are no "valid" alternatives to VR with a flat screen.  The missing element is the 3rd dimension.  Without that, it's just fancier flat screening.  (my opinion)


Edited by DerekSpeare
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I've only been flying VR for a couple days but I have to agree, the ability to pull inverted over a mountain ridge and look up to follow the terrain back down into a valley is something you could never really simulate with a flat screen

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I’ve run every config, 3 screen to 55inch 3dtv nvidia 3dvision, 55 inch 4K, to Vr since it came out.  Will never fly without vr, the closest thing to vr was 55inch screen in 3D atleast with that you got a taste of depth, but VR takes it to another level, and add in a buttkicker with the software it’s flying bliss for me.  I rather be inside the window rather than looking through it...  

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4 minutes ago, Enduro14 said:

I’ve run every config, 3 screen to 55inch 3dtv nvidia 3dvision, 55 inch 4K, to Vr since it came out.  Will never fly without vr, the closest thing to vr was 55inch screen in 3D atleast with that you got a taste of depth, but VR takes it to another level, and add in a buttkicker with the software it’s flying bliss for me.  I rather be inside the window rather than looking through it...  

 

👍

That is probably the best description of what VR is all about I have seen to date.

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We've got a 4k 43" monitor. When it's time for Simulation the VR HMD come out (Reverb G2 & Rift S), and the 4k gathers dust.

 

There's a place for pancake monitors in gaming... but those days are long gone for seated simulations.

 

VR for the clear win. imo. YMMV.

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Just my opinion, but I used DCS first with just 2D screens, then Track IR and I even tried really large screens like using projectors. When I went to VR, there was no going back. It's hard to describe but you get this 3D situational awareness, that I just don't know how you could replicate with 2D screens with the exception of having a curved screen that covers an entire cockpit-shaped area, and even then it wouldn't be 3-dimensional.

 

The example that strikes me the most is when missiles are coming at me. With VR I frequently find myself in a deep turn looking straight up at the missile to decide how to evade it, and it feels like I am able to find a 3D solution(sometimes anyway) to how to cut off the sucker. I just never got anywhere close to that experience with 2D screens or TrackIR.

 

In my opinion (good) VR is orders of magnitude better and there's no going back once you try it. Yes, there is the downside of not being able to see a physical sim-pit cockpit environment. Maybe that will eventually be fixed with AR. But I think much more is gained than lost.

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I started on 3x24" monitors. Upgraded to one 34" Ultrawidescreen, then switched to Rift CV1, Rift-S. Flown in the Rift CV1 / -S for more than a couple years.

Got my Reverg G2 back in December... And I went back to my Ultrawidescreen.

 

Simply not happy with the Reverg G2. WMR/SteamVR is hardly an efficient way of dooing it, so the performance is terrible. The sweetspot (the area I can read labels arround the center) is tiny compared to the Rift S. Sadly I sold my Rift S in anticipation to the G2.

 

But I actually enjoy flying on the Ultrawidescreen at the moment. Would love a larger screen, but currently there are other priorities. Getting used to TrackIR again was a bit hard, but dooable. Will see whenever a next gen VR Headset comes arround If I dip in my toes again.

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