Jump to content

MiG-23 MLA what is it's planned weapons capabilities?


Hodo

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, WinterH said:

Now this part will be controversial but 😛 in a close in dogfight though other aircraft will have the upper hand as 23 will imo be hard to get the best out of in dogfighting. Maybe not Viggen because of its huge AoA limitations and huge deltas becoming a set of sails/airbrakes after the first 180 degrees of a turn :p.

Not so controversial. The MLA still has control surfaces tuned for high speed flight, and lacks the later aerodynamic tweaks that benefit the MLD. That said, it will still accelerate like an ICBM, and should be able to kinematically defeat any weapon thrown its way so long as the pilot is paying attention and doesn't get too aggressive.

 


Edited by Sealpup
Forum acting up.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Бойовий Сокіл said:

The MLA will have the edge on the initial engagement being high and fast - literally being capable of Mach 2 with a full combat load - but it does only get two R24's while the Phantom can carry 4 AIM-7's in even the standard config. But whether the F-4E gets the 7F is anyones guess. A future F-4J/S could also close the gap a little more.

AIM-7F is very likely, I vaguely recall Heatblur saying yes to it, but I may be wrong with that, however, I do know that AIM-7F is in the manuals for both F-4E DSCG (first one we'll get) and F-4E DMAS birds.

Regardless though, despite being able to carry twice the missiles, BVR or WVR alike, F-4E's radar will have it handicapped against MiG-23MLA in BVR fights imo. Look down capability isn't there for F-4E for starters, and it's radar dish is a lot smaller than that of the 23. Also, in F-4E you need to wait for 4 seconds for the Sparrow to be ready in order for it to track after a successful lock, whether it's E or F. Some say this is fixed in later updates, so may be not in at least one of the versions. But in the manuals I've read, I've always seen this requirement mentioned. And again, MiG has the IRST too.

On the flipside however, F-4 has countermeasures. MiG-23MLA in Soviet service didn't, and depending on mission/server it may not get any. Iraqi Air Force apparently did modify theirs to fit countermeasures, and according to Razbam we will get it in the module as an optional capability.

50 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

Phantom will likely have 7E all the way through 7M. I'd say a 7F will be a staple missile for it.

For F-4E, AIM-7F is the top of the line. Naval birds got the AIM-7M. When we get them, I think they will be better than even MiG-23MLA in BVR, as they have a pretty good radar too, in addition to more and arguably better missiles, as well as countermeasures by default. They can also get later Sidewinders, whether E can carry AIM-9L and/or M seems a bit unclear. There are some photos though. Regardless, naval F-4s could do better things with sidewinders like slaving them to a radar lock or using SEAM mode etc afaik. Slatted F-4Es we'll get should be more agile than F-4J in dogfights, but if we get F-4S, they also got slats, don't know how do they perform in relation to E.

Overall though, maybe apart from better agility, F-4E is more suited to be a strike bird and naval F-4s are more suited to air to air.

17 minutes ago, Sealpup said:

That said, it will still accelerate like an ICBM, and should be able to kinematically defeat any weapon thrown its way so long as the pilot is paying attention and doesn't get too aggressive.

Yet, it is supposed to have INSANE acceleration and climb rate.

Sooo looking forward to the day we'll have F-4E, MiG-23MLA, F-8J, (hopefully) MiG-17F, Mirage F1, Su-22M4 and/or Su-17M4, A-6E, A-7E all together in the sim in addition to existing AJS 37, MiG-21Bis, F-5E.

  • Like 5

Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V

DCS-Dismounts Script

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, WinterH said:

AIM-7F is very likely, I vaguely recall Heatblur saying yes to it, but I may be wrong with that, however, I do know that AIM-7F is in the manuals for both F-4E DSCG (first one we'll get) and F-4E DMAS birds.

Regardless though, despite being able to carry twice the missiles, BVR or WVR alike, F-4E's radar will have it handicapped against MiG-23MLA in BVR fights imo. Look down capability isn't there for F-4E for starters, and it's radar dish is a lot smaller than that of the 23. Also, in F-4E you need to wait for 4 seconds for the Sparrow to be ready in order for it to track after a successful lock, whether it's E or F. Some say this is fixed in later updates, so may be not in at least one of the versions. But in the manuals I've read, I've always seen this requirement mentioned. And again, MiG has the IRST too.

On the flipside however, F-4 has countermeasures. MiG-23MLA in Soviet service didn't, and depending on mission/server it may not get any. Iraqi Air Force apparently did modify theirs to fit countermeasures, and according to Razbam we will get it in the module as an optional capability.

For F-4E, AIM-7F is the top of the line. Naval birds got the AIM-7M. When we get them, I think they will be better than even MiG-23MLA in BVR, as they have a pretty good radar too, in addition to more and arguably better missiles, as well as countermeasures by default. They can also get later Sidewinders, whether E can carry AIM-9L and/or M seems a bit unclear. There are some photos though. Regardless, naval F-4s could do better things with sidewinders like slaving them to a radar lock or using SEAM mode etc afaik. Slatted F-4Es we'll get should be more agile than F-4J in dogfights, but if we get F-4S, they also got slats, don't know how do they perform in relation to E.

Overall though, maybe apart from better agility, F-4E is more suited to be a strike bird and naval F-4s are more suited to air to air.

Yet, it is supposed to have INSANE acceleration and climb rate.

Sooo looking forward to the day we'll have F-4E, MiG-23MLA, F-8J, (hopefully) MiG-17F, Mirage F1, Su-22M4 and/or Su-17M4, A-6E, A-7E all together in the sim in addition to existing AJS 37, MiG-21Bis, F-5E.

IDK, the Phantom Phans assure me the F4E carried the 7M in the 80's and I would assume the 9L/M certainly other countries did. Also supposedly the later F4 we will get has some sort of Hockmere lookdown MTI kinda thing that supposedly sorta worked, but yeah the Sapfir should be better, and in general the R23/24 would be better than most period missiles the phantom should have available. How useful the IRST ends up being is really up to ED to actually code a plausible working IRST system, or for Razbam to do it. The current implementations in game on the FC3 models are pretty terrible (seeing through clouds/weather being a major no-no, and getting false returns from clouds too) And honestly since its a look down IRST vs a look up there should be clutter problems in a variety of scenarios. 

The 23MLA should basically outclass the F4E in most of the important AA criteria as well, and it will be able to walk away from any fight it engages in. Even the crappy MS version (worse engine heavier worse aero) walked away from pretty much every US jet aside from maybe the F15 IIRC. But certainly the F4 and A model Tomcat. And the MLA was both lighter and had a more powerful engine. 

I have mixed feelings on the the CW lineup. In a sense it is starting to look good. but most of those modules are a long ways out IMO sadly including this one. IDK on the Mig17 or Kfir at this point as I haven't seen much actual update on those modules so they are vaporware to me. The 17M4 while teased doesn't seem to have an actual contract and at a minimum is a year or more out. A6 IMO is back burnered till the EF is done. That and I'd love to see the actual cold war F14 variants hit sometime this year, along with a CW era phoenix to go with them. Near term aside from maybe the F1/F4 I figure the closest other module looks to be the A7 and maybe the Gina. So the Cold warriors will have a pretty big blue stack to contend with in their mig21 for quite some time I'm afraid. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the "first" new red module wasn't the 29 at this rate instead of the 23, which would be a shame IMO. And a decent red ground attacker (su-17/22) looks to be a long way out unfortunately. 

At some point I'd like to see a mig25, but it would probably be the older P version for which there are some docs out there for, rather than the PD with a look down radar for which there aren't docs. And the P, well, limited use cases in DCS IMO. 

 

 


Edited by Harlikwin
  • Like 1

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see being able to run to be more relevant in BVR, unless it leads into/happens after a loss of visual, I see running off from WVR more often resulting in taking a missile up the nozzles personally.

For the AIM-7M, AFAIK it's seeker requires a pulse doppler radar, which F-4E never got. I've seen manuals from up to 80s, and they still only mentioned E-2 and F.

DMAS upgraded F-4E has an updated APQ-120, so I supposed that "maybe kinda sorta look down" feature may have been in that. But it's not the first variant we got, and that one shouldn't have any look down capability.

As for the AIM-9L and/or M, I've heard that F-4Gs got them in USAF service, but I've seen a few photos with what seems to be plain Es with them too. So don't know. That could be testing/evaluation sort of thing too in those photos. Don't know that either. F-4F had them, but then, it's not exactly an E. Here in Turkey, I've never seen/heard about F-4Es with any other sidewinder besides J/P, even the 2020 Terminators afaik. It doesn't seem to me like the specific variants of F-4E we'll get has Lima or Mike's, but we'll see.

As for Cold War aircraft nearing a release, I feel like only the Mirage F1 is close. Gina will probably be 1-1.5 years from now I think. MiG-17 may or may not happen, and doesn't seem around the corner in either case. F-4E is supposed to be this year still, but as much as I would love that to happen, I'm not really counting on it too much. MiG-23 herself doesn't seem likely even next year, or at least before late next year to me. Razbam has Strike Eagle to do, and polish, in addition to doing work on their existing modules. Their number of programmers seem to have grown, but don't know if they're still enough to work on/release two relatively big new modules. Here's hoping... A-7... maybe next year, who knows... I'd love it to happen soon, but things take time as much as needed. All the rest seem at least 2-3 years off to me sadly.

Finally, the MiG-25 thing. It doesn't seem likely anyone will pick it up soon TBH. Also, any version of interceptor variants will be kind of limited in DCS, but I'd still like it. If you want to see it in Cold War multiplayer tho, PD would be the minimum for to be useful in any capacity. Personally, I'm more interested in SEAD and recon/bomber variants. Former, because obvious. Latter, because what's not to love in (janky and probably not particularly accurate) supersonic CCRP from stratosphere with 10 FAB-500s :p?

Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V

DCS-Dismounts Script

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Stratos said:

I wouldnt cross my fingers for that MiG17F, havent seen a update on it since almost a year ago.

"Almost a year", last messages on their FB page is from March 😅 .

  • Like 2

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

"Almost a year", last messages on their FB page is from March 😅 .

Didn't even know about that Facebook page, was talking about the YT videos, sorry.

I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/6/2022 at 10:07 AM, WinterH said:

I see being able to run to be more relevant in BVR, unless it leads into/happens after a loss of visual, I see running off from WVR more often resulting in taking a missile up the nozzles personally.

For the AIM-7M, AFAIK it's seeker requires a pulse doppler radar, which F-4E never got. I've seen manuals from up to 80s, and they still only mentioned E-2 and F.

DMAS upgraded F-4E has an updated APQ-120, so I supposed that "maybe kinda sorta look down" feature may have been in that. But it's not the first variant we got, and that one shouldn't have any look down capability.

As for the AIM-9L and/or M, I've heard that F-4Gs got them in USAF service, but I've seen a few photos with what seems to be plain Es with them too. So don't know. That could be testing/evaluation sort of thing too in those photos. Don't know that either. F-4F had them, but then, it's not exactly an E. Here in Turkey, I've never seen/heard about F-4Es with any other sidewinder besides J/P, even the 2020 Terminators afaik. It doesn't seem to me like the specific variants of F-4E we'll get has Lima or Mike's, but we'll see.

As for Cold War aircraft nearing a release, I feel like only the Mirage F1 is close. Gina will probably be 1-1.5 years from now I think. MiG-17 may or may not happen, and doesn't seem around the corner in either case. F-4E is supposed to be this year still, but as much as I would love that to happen, I'm not really counting on it too much. MiG-23 herself doesn't seem likely even next year, or at least before late next year to me. Razbam has Strike Eagle to do, and polish, in addition to doing work on their existing modules. Their number of programmers seem to have grown, but don't know if they're still enough to work on/release two relatively big new modules. Here's hoping... A-7... maybe next year, who knows... I'd love it to happen soon, but things take time as much as needed. All the rest seem at least 2-3 years off to me sadly.

Finally, the MiG-25 thing. It doesn't seem likely anyone will pick it up soon TBH. Also, any version of interceptor variants will be kind of limited in DCS, but I'd still like it. If you want to see it in Cold War multiplayer tho, PD would be the minimum for to be useful in any capacity. Personally, I'm more interested in SEAD and recon/bomber variants. Former, because obvious. Latter, because what's not to love in (janky and probably not particularly accurate) supersonic CCRP from stratosphere with 10 FAB-500s :p?

Well the 7M has a monopulse seeker, but its its still CW illuminated. The range of it with the F4 radar might be less since its CW illuminator wasn't as powerful as say an F15.

As for the 9L/M IDK you might be right, but I think some guy in the Phantom thread said it could/did carry em. German Phantoms certainly did as did the British ones. But who knows maybe USAF never integrated them on theirs since they were more bomb trucks at the end of their days.

F1 will likely be this month IMO.  F4 is supposedly this year still, though I'm gonna guess thats Q4 at a minimum.  IDK on the Gina, its a pretty simple plane all things considered, so no more systems wise than a trainer so I think it could be quick but most likely next year. A7 is looking decent but I'm thinking probably next year as well for it. The 23 IMO might come next year but its entirely dependent on how much resources the F15 eats up IMO. AFAIK they haven't even started coding it, so I'm not real optimistic. OS did say it should be in alpha at the end of this year but I don't buy it. Mig17 I don't even really think about, they aren't an official team yet, much less have a contract. Same thing for the Su17, no contract yet even though it looks like its got some basic functionality coded. 

As for the foxbat, I mean the PD was an early 80's 25, it was certainly the most capable. But really it was long in the tooth at that point. A P would be interesting and from what I've heard the docs for it are out there. It would be cool to have some of the variants as well, but they are pretty niche IMO. I think for MP the 25P would be interesting on a 70's server. Not like all planes on those servers would F15's. I mean 25P vs an F4/F1 would be interesting. 

23 hours ago, Fromthedeep said:

The Cold War era lineup really needs a period accurate, full fidelity F-15. The Phantom variants will be excellent "mostly bombers" but to represent the technological advantage that NATO enjoyed after the Eagle entered service. 

I mean kinda. The early F15's are cool IMO, but they had a bunch of issues in terms of reliability early on, and the carter years sortie availability rates are amazingly bad like 20-30% in some squadrons IIRC. Plus there weren't a ton available for most of the 70's. So from a historical perspective its kinda debatable how much of an impact they would have had in the 70's. By the 80's sure, all that stuff was ironed out. But again, most people forget the eagle didn't even have stuff like TWS till like the mid80's on the C versions. And I doubt the A even had it unless they just replaced those radars. 

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Technically speaking, the F-4E did carry 9L, 9M and 7F, it wouldn't be cleared for them until mid 80s at earliest however - so the earlier variant of Phantom we should be seeing should be without the 7F, being a 1974 variant. Whether the DMAS (late 70s?) variant will have it remains to be seen. Forget look-down/low level attack with Phantom (although older modules like the 21 and F-5 can somehow not get affected by ground clutter at all). This is one of the major advantages the 23MLA has, possible the Mirage F1 as well. That said, (in case of the 23) do not expect miracles - the filters employed on the 23 should leave a clear scope at low altitude, but also dramatically reduce the sensitivity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

The MLD variant would have been awesome to get just due to improved control surfaces and slightly improved radar over the MLA (Same radar as the MiG-29A). It also received the R-27. Maybe someday Razbam will be able to do the Flogger-K.

Still looking forward to the Flogger-G.

F/A-18C; A-10C; F-14B; Mirage 2000C; A-4E; F-16C; Flaming Cliffs 3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/21/2022 at 5:41 PM, Бойовий Сокіл said:

Everything you said was wrong. The MLD never got 27R's outside of pitched prototype upgrades and it also had a different radar to the 29, albeit of similar specs.

Not even similar specs, necessarily. N019 is vastly superior to the N008, being internally coherent high PRF radar, while N008 is still a low-PRF externally coherent set. So you might reach similar performance at altitude, but the N008 will have trouble detecting things down low. N003 to a greater extent. But at least you're able to do it at all without a scope full of clutter.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/6/2022 at 6:51 PM, Fromthedeep said:

The Cold War era lineup really needs a period accurate, full fidelity F-15. The Phantom variants will be excellent "mostly bombers" but to represent the technological advantage that NATO enjoyed after the Eagle entered service. 

Lightweight F-15A from 1975 with Vmax switch and analog cockpit.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
On 1/26/2022 at 3:53 AM, æck said:

D8PnME6.png

From the original MiG-23MLA manual, translated to english.

where can i find the english translation?

 

Build:

 

Windows 10 64 bit Pro

Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z790 Motherboard, Intel Core i7 12700k ,Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 64gb ram (3600 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia RTX 3080 12gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; Samsung 970 EVo, , Samsung evo 860 pro 1 TB SSD, Samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD,  WD 1TB HDD

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
16 hours ago, Avimimus said:

I'm increasingly interested in the R-60 (not M) and R-13 tail chasers... could be quite interesting. I do hope some earlier/export weapons are included!

It will have R60's at a minimum. 

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...