F-16CG Block 40 (pre CCIP)

[Northstar98]

13 minutes ago, bies said:

The only US F-16C variant ever integrated with AIM-7 was Block 25,

And the Block 15 ADF but that's a minority variant from the late 80s.

13 minutes ago, bies said:

That being said i would love any Cold War F-16, especially lightweight more maneuverable early F-16A. Or topic night ground attack Block 40 with LANTIRN.

The reason why I chose the Block 40 is because I fugured it would be similar enough to the Block 50 to make it easier on development compared to any other version (aside from a pre-CCIP Block 50D) but sufficiently different enough to provide greater interest.

That said, I'd love an A Block 15, the best counterpart to the FF MiG-29 ED hopes to do and would fit on the newly announced map.

[F-2]

1 hour ago, Northstar98 said:

And the Block 15 ADF but that's a minority variant from the late 80s.

The reason why I chose the Block 40 is because I fugured it would be similar enough to the Block 50 to make it easier on development compared to any other version (aside from a pre-CCIP Block 50D) but sufficiently different enough to provide greater interest.

That said, I'd love an A Block 15, the best counterpart to the FF MiG-29 ED hopes to do and would fit on the newly announced map.

ADF was 240 planes, that’s comparable numbers to most blocks

 

 

block 40 CCIP, pre CCIP, old, modern has one reason to simulate it. LANTIRN Pod. It’s what makes it unique. Everything else is a double of efforts.

[Northstar98]

8 hours ago, F-2 said:

ADF was 240 planes, that’s comparable numbers to most blocks

Not really (I did do a post about it here), the only one with comparable numbers is the F-16C Block 25, there were some with much smaller production runs (namely early As like the Block 1), but there are plenty of blocks with much larger runs.

For example, there were over 4 times as many Block 15s compared to Block 15 ADF.

8 hours ago, F-2 said:

block 40 CCIP, pre CCIP, old, modern has one reason to simulate it. LANTIRN Pod. It’s what makes it unique. Everything else is a double of efforts.

More so the AN/AAQ-13 navigation pod, our current aircraft should have the AN/AAQ-14 targeting pod, but unfortunately we won't be getting it.

The same can be said for the Hornet and the AN/AAS-38B Nite Hawk, despite it being the most appropriate pod for the Hornet (+ the AN/ASQ-173 LST/SCAM and the AN/AAR-50 TINS pod).

It's also the perfect block for ODF scenarios if we ever get a Balkans map.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Northstar98

[Errors2149]

+1 for block 40 variant, it's gonna fit most export nations as well. and will essentially cover service Falcons 1989-present, which is pretty impressive as far as variant usage goes. and can ofc be much better optimized for earlier scenarios as well.

Besides, it is simply plainly superior to our current block 50C/M in terms of having all weather capability, better navigation systems, and integrated ECM.

AIM-120A's could be made a mission editor payload restriction for accuracy as well.

(also i am biased for the WAR hud and navflir)

Edited August 4, 2022 by Errors2149

[Tippis]

Night Falcons (TFR and all) or go home. So there.

[F-2]

3 hours ago, Tippis said:

Night Falcons (TFR and all) or go home. So there.

Oh absolutely. I can really get behind a block 40 because it offers capability we don’t have. Unlike say a block 30 which is a more austere version of what we have.

[bies]

12 hours ago, F-2 said:

Oh absolutely. I can really get behind a block 40 because it offers capability we don’t have. Unlike say a block 30 which is a more austere version of what we have.

Agree, but Block 30 would be nice as well having better kinematic performance than our late Block 50. Higher T/W, lower wing loading, better acceleration, climb, sustained and instantaneous turn. At cost of simpler Cold War avionics. And it was the main variant during Gulf War and famous US Navy aggressor hotrod to train dissimilar air combat.

Edited August 6, 2022 by bies

[F-2]

4 hours ago, bies said:

Agree, but Block 30 would be nice as well having better kinematic performance than our late Block 50. Higher T/W, lower wing loading, better acceleration, climb, sustained and instantaneous turn. At cost of simpler Cold War avionics. And it was the main variant during Gulf War and famous US Navy aggressor hotrod to train dissimilar air combat.

 

Their actually not that dissimilar. With comparable loads the Block 30 has like a very small advantage in turn rate. The 30 has better pitch response. The Block 50 actually has better acceleration, about a second under mach 1 and more supersonic. The block 40 doesn’t compare that bad to either. There is a certain viper dedicated website with a topic on this.

 

the F-16a on the other hand would have a very different flight model but the pros and cons would be more pronounced.

[bies]

On 8/6/2022 at 12:54 PM, F-2 said:

Their actually not that dissimilar. With comparable loads the Block 30 has like a very small advantage in turn rate. The 30 has better pitch response. The Block 50 actually has better acceleration, about a second under mach 1 and more supersonic. The block 40 doesn’t compare that bad to either. There is a certain viper dedicated website with a topic on this.

 

the F-16a on the other hand would have a very different flight model but the pros and cons would be more pronounced.

Yes, early F-16A would be the best, the earlier Block the better like Block 1, 5, 10, it would be the most distinct, with completely different gameplay and character, analog cockpit, short range weapon only, but fantastic maneuverability with "small tail" optimised for dogfight and light nose with APG-66 radar.

When it comes to Block 30 - later on they were modernised, received reinforced structure to houl more bombs, integrated with more weapon systems, new avionics blocks - and they grew in weigh being only marginally lighter then Block 50 and their kinematic performance difference diminished.

Block 30 from late 1980s and Gulf War though - it was half ton lighter airframe with nearly identical GE engine and significant kinematic advantage over later Block 50 having significatnly higher T/W and even bigger advantage in wing loading.

Edited August 10, 2022 by bies

[F-2]

9 minutes ago, bies said:

Yes, F-16A would be the best, the most distinct, with completely different gameplay and character, analog cockpit, short range weapon only, but fantastic maneuverability.

When it comes to Block 30 - later on they were modernised, received reinforced structure to houl more bombs, integrated with more weapon systems, new avionics blocks - and they grew in weigh being only marginally lighter then Block 50 and their kinematic performance difference diminished.

Block 30 from late 1980s and Gulf War though - it was half ton lighter airframe with nearly identical GE engine and significant kinematic advantage over later Block 50 having significatnly higher T/W and even bigger advantage in wing loading.

A would definitely had advantages, but I’m reluctant to say “better” it’s the most “Zippy” but the power of the GE vipers is incredible. It’s usually either “block 10” or big mouth when asked who’s the toughest viper to fight.

[jaguara5]

Another vote for the F-16C Block30 + pseudo F-16N). But hasn't Wags said that there are no plans for other viper variants? 

[Northstar98]

On 8/6/2022 at 7:32 AM, bies said:

Agree, but Block 30 would be nice as well having better kinematic performance than our late Block 50. Higher T/W, lower wing loading, better acceleration, climb, sustained and instantaneous turn. At cost of simpler Cold War avionics. And it was the main variant during Gulf War and famous US Navy aggressor hotrod to train dissimilar air combat.

Yeah, but it's also more work compared to the 40, which at least shares the same sensors and FLCS to my knowledge. Engine is slightly different (essentially a shorter version of the engine in the Tomcat, slightly less thrust than the -129).

I wanted an aircraft that was different enough to warrant a new version (namely improved night attack capability).

3 hours ago, jaguara5 said:

But hasn't Wags said that there are no plans for other viper variants? 

The point of a wishlist is for things that aren't planned to become planned.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Northstar98

[bies]

2 hours ago, jaguara5 said:

Another vote for the F-16C Block30 + pseudo F-16N). But hasn't Wags said that there are no plans for other viper variants? 

If anything i've seen someone from ED stated some other F-16 variant is possible when current Block 50CCIP will be finished. I have not followed this topic, so I may not have the latest information.

[Evoman]

I actually would be more interested in a Block-30 or a F-16A than the current Block 50. It seems like the Block 30 would be the purist form of the Viper.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Evoman

[Kev2go]

On 8/2/2022 at 5:13 PM, bies said:

The only US F-16C variant ever integrated with AIM-7 was Block 25, and not all Block 25 machines were integrated, there is an interview with a pilot flying them. Overall AIM-7 were close to useless with small F-16 radar that's why USAF never deployed AIM-7 integrated F-16 in Europe. AIM-7 also significantly decreases F-16 kinematic performance, acceleration, climb, maneuverability, range - F-16 contrary to AIM-7 integrated fighters like F-4, F-14, F-15, F/A-18 - didn't have semi-recessed low drag AIM-7 pylons.

Oh, and "they" absolutely didn't want AIM-7 from start. USAF specifically didn't want it. Masterminds behind F-16 concept Boyd, Sprey, Myers absolutely and purposely didn't want AIM-7 on F-16.

That being said i would love any Cold War F-16, especially lightweight more maneuverable early F-16A, especially super nimble Block 1, 5, 10 - with small tail, better for dogfight, but worse for heavy bomb loads. Or topic night ground attack Block 40 with LANTIRN.

 

so how could an Aim7 be useless on a viper if  APG68 equipped C blocks were paired with Aim120s ? and If F16A ADF with a mere APG66 could use sparrows?

Edited August 10, 2022 by Kev2go

[bies]

7 hours ago, Kev2go said:

so how could an Aim7 be useless on a viper if  APG68 equipped C blocks were paired with Aim120s ? and If F16A ADF with a mere APG66 could use sparrows?

During an interview he didn't say it was useless, it was useful for non complicated intercept i.e. straight flying bomber.

AIM-120 required far less accurate tracking to hit the target or just painting it with TWS without tracking at all. In case of SAHR AIM-7 missile guidance precision depends directly on accurate single target tracking and practical range of the missile guiding on radar power and antenna size thus the power of radar signal reflected by the target.