Why can't I find a reasonably priced flightstick/gpu?

[jonatron5]

So long story short I've had a desire to upgrade my flight setup.

 

And I want a really nice flight stick with one of those extension rods, for precision flying.

 

I looked at the warthog hotas. And I cant find one for less than $800. Which is just for the base unit. That's not the extension rod accessory.

 

So I thought scratch that, that's nearly a months rent.

 

So i looked at virpirl controllers, and they are alot cheaper. Like 400 out the door. But they are completely out of stock, and backordered.

 

So scratch that too.

 

So I went looking for graphics cards

 

I have a gtx1080. And its decent. But it stutters in VR. So I was looking at a 3080

Well thats also retailing for $1000

 

So scratch that also.

 

 

Kinda bummed out. I want to get a better flight setup and get back into dcs. But I just personally can't justify that.

 

If I could get the flightstick for 400. I'd do it today.

 

 

[Steel Jaw]

Major price gouging for the Warthog right now, assuming you can even find one.

[jonatron5]

1 hour ago, Mower said:

Major price gouging for the Warthog right now, assuming you can even find one.

Yeah i'm not rich enough to play video games lol. its official

[Gruman]

Well, COVID, MSFS2020, and Crypto Miner... Sucking up all the hardware. Waited 2 months for the 3080, but at least for a reasonable price.

Just stand in line for the VPC/Virpil controllers. 2-4 Weeks and you should get a shipping information. You can still get an F-16/F18 Grip later if you prefer this look.

[jonatron5]

1 hour ago, Gruman said:

Well, COVID, MSFS2020, and Crypto Miner... Sucking up all the hardware. Waited 2 months for the 3080, but at least for a reasonable price.

Just stand in line for the VPC/Virpil controllers. 2-4 Weeks and you should get a shipping information. You can still get an F-16/F18 Grip later if you prefer this look.

Yeah that works.

the VR is still laggy though. Guess i gotta wait until bitcoin miners swap to something other than gaming cards.

[Gumbie]

First of crypto miner not really the issue with GPU its shortage of parts from covid in Japan and areas that produce the stuff.  Second the prices are ridiculous just wait tell the end of this year to upgrade cards they have new ones releasing and for Joysticks same thing is going on they cant get all the components to keep up with demand which would be fine but people seen the rise in people buying them due to MSFS2020 and then price gouging started dont fall for there bullshit few months from now should be stock available 

[Mars Exulte]

Know, then, it is the year two-thousand and twenty-one. The known universe is ruled by bots and scalpers..........

[Gunnar81]

On 1/25/2021 at 7:21 PM, jonatron5 said:

So long story short I've had a desire to upgrade my flight setup.

 

And I want a really nice flight stick with one of those extension rods, for precision flying.

 

I looked at the warthog hotas. And I cant find one for less than $800. Which is just for the base unit. That's not the extension rod accessory.

 

So I thought scratch that, that's nearly a months rent.

 

So i looked at virpirl controllers, and they are alot cheaper. Like 400 out the door. But they are completely out of stock, and backordered.

 

So scratch that too.

 

So I went looking for graphics cards

 

I have a gtx1080. And its decent. But it stutters in VR. So I was looking at a 3080

Well thats also retailing for $1000

 

So scratch that also.

 

 

Kinda bummed out. I want to get a better flight setup and get back into dcs. But I just personally can't justify that.

 

If I could get the flightstick for 400. I'd do it today.

 

 

Hey jonatron5, why don't you have a look at the VKB joysticks. I just purchased a Gladiator NXT to replace my TM16000 and the premium was 150$ CAD. They look like a pretty solid stick and from what I've seen they are fairly modular and you can get accessories including extensions etc. Just a thought..

[Sokol1_br]

On 1/25/2021 at 11:21 PM, jonatron5 said:

I looked at the warthog hotas. And I cant find one for less than $800. Which is just for the base unit. That's not the extension rod accessory.

 

Sign in MyPilotStore.com to be informed when available, they practice normal prices.

 

But VKB, VirPil/VPC, WingWing are better choices and have normal prices - when a new batch is made. 

[Dangerzone]

With the price of the warthog, I'd be suggesting heading over and at least checking out the VKB and/or Virpil for the sticks and throttles. Recently got my Virpil CM3 and I'm extremely impressed. Saw my mates TM Warthog and so glad I went with the Virpil instead. More features/options, highly customisable and at the end of the day - very similarly priced given what he paid compared to me.

 

What also really appealed to me with both Virpil and VKB is the programming. The software programs the unit itself, so once downloaded to the stick - no software is required to be ran on Windows. (Unlike the X56 profile that has to have software running). You can unplug it, take it to another computer and it'll have the same functionality as programmed - no software required. You can also download the config from the controls so you don't need to save any config locally if you want to make changes later. 

 

As for GPU's - well, I'm kinda holding out for the 3080 SUPER (wanting the extra VRAM) - and I'm hoping by the time GPU's settle down this will be out. Either that, or I may have to look at going across to the dark side.

[dukovac]

14 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

With the price of the warthog, I'd be suggesting heading over and at least checking out the VKB and/or Virpil for the sticks and throttles.

Full hotas setup from Virpil (MongoosT-50CM2 Grip, WarBrd base, and MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle) is 877€ with cheapest shipping and VAT included. That's really terrible and greedy. Warthog price is at least 300€ lower.

[cordite]

In the case of VKB/VIRPIL/Winwing, you get what you pay for.

[dpgfla]

If you're looking for the flight stick only i'm currently selling a brand new, never used warthog stick and base for $350.  Still in its box.

Edited February 1, 2021 by dpgfla

[Dangerzone]

7 hours ago, dukovac said:

Full hotas setup from Virpil (MongoosT-50CM2 Grip, WarBrd base, and MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle) is 877€ with cheapest shipping and VAT included. That's really terrible and greedy. Warthog price is at least 300€ lower.

 

Interesting. Down here in Oz, a mate of mine purchased the warthog as well as rudder pedals (as the stick doesn't have twist). He didn't want pedals - he was happy with twist, but knew he wouldn't get them with the warthog.

 

Doing the calculations - the total cost for me to purchase the VKB MCGIII with twist plus the CM3 throttle vs my mate purchasing the three (including freight )was around $250AUD difference when both were landed (that's ~€158 Euro ). 

 

Yes - it was a bit more expensive to go the route that I took - but from my perspective when comparing the two, the €158 difference was a bargain for the extra that I received. I've got quality products with excellent features (such as firmware customizing buttons, additional switches, etc), - that are not available in the warthog - I see it more as value for money rather than being greedy. 

 

If you're looking solely at RRP alone then yes, the warthog is significantly cheaper (but then... the X56 cheaper again), but when comparing on other variables and factors (that will be different for each individual) - I stand by my original suggestion that in the VKB and VirPil is definitely worth considering before making the purchase and juggling different options around... and then each person can weigh up their own applications as to whether it's wanted. 

 

Reasonably priced might be different for each person - but for me reasonably priced isn't just price only, it's a factor of price, quality and functionality that end up determining if something is reasonably priced.

 

As a result - the X56 which was around 1/3rd of the price I've spent on the VKB/Virpil combination was not reasonably priced when compared to VKB/Virpil in my opinion - it was a waste of money that is now gathering dust and will be used only as a 'backup' if something needs to be returned under warranty.

 

I never said the OP should go that route - just to add it to his consideration.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Dangerzone

[dukovac]

21 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

Reasonably priced might be different for each person

Very true! I unfortunately own several virpil products and had mechanical problems with almost everything except for desk mounts. Some examples: button caps falling off from throttle and stick, useless detent on right throttle, the uneven force required to go from side to side on the same axis on the CM2 base, Warbrd 5pin din cable breaking ...

Had a streak of bad luck with virpil and now I see their products as unreliable, overpriced and of unpredictable quality.

[Concentric Arc]

On 1/29/2021 at 7:26 AM, Gunnar81 said:

Hey jonatron5, why don't you have a look at the VKB joysticks. I just purchased a Gladiator NXT to replace my TM16000 and the premium was 150$ CAD. They look like a pretty solid stick and from what I've seen they are fairly modular and you can get accessories including extensions etc. Just a thought..

 

Are you sure? I was looking at a Gladiator NXT Premium version earlier today. The price was $150US dollars, plus $45US shipping, plus import fees. So probably closer to $300 Canadian. That is off of the VKBSim North America site.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Concentric Arc

[Dangerzone]

4 hours ago, dukovac said:

Very true! I unfortunately own several virpil products and had mechanical problems with almost everything except for desk mounts. Some examples: button caps falling off from throttle and stick, useless detent on right throttle, the uneven force required to go from side to side on the same axis on the CM2 base, Warbrd 5pin din cable breaking ...

Had a streak of bad luck with virpil and now I see their products as unreliable, overpriced and of unpredictable quality.

 

I am so sorry to hear that. With that string of bad luck I would have the same reservations as you for sure... and would consider the product unreliable. (That's how I feel about Logitech now, whereas others will swear by them).  I sure hope you have better luck in the future with whichever route you choose! 

[Yurgon]

On 2/1/2021 at 5:54 PM, dukovac said:

Full hotas setup from Virpil (MongoosT-50CM2 Grip, WarBrd base, and MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle) is 877€ with cheapest shipping and VAT included. That's really terrible and greedy. Warthog price is at least 300€ lower.

 

I'd like to add my 2 Cents here.

 

The TM Warthog is now 10 years old. At the time of release, it was by far the best plug and play consumer HOTAS I'd ever heard of, and when I finally got mine, I couldn't have been happier. I was aware some people complained about stiction, but I guess I got lucky because mine never suffered from it, or at least I didn't notice. The tiny and unprecise slew cursor, the cheap plastic on the throttle handles, some LEDs in the base dying after two years or so, all not a big deal.

 

In the meantime, VKB and Virpil managed to sell much higher quality products, which addressed many of the TM shortcomings, at a much lower production rate for a relatively compatible price. Yes, more expensive, but not orders of magnitude above TM, just some 30, 40 or 50% more expensive, which I think is reasonable given the quality and the fact that they started basically as garage projects, as far as I'm aware. Plus they managed to expand their sales into the EU and the US to provide customers with more legal rights (good luck suing a Russian company from the EU if they deliver a faulty product and don't offer a refund - not saying they ever did that, but now that they're selling from the EU, they have legal obligations here and I'm much more willing to order from them).

 

So, what did TM do in the meantime? Exchangeable grips have been a marketing argument from day 1, but it took them until a year after the DCS Hornet went into early access until they finally offered the Hornet grip for sale, and at roughly twice the price I'm ready to pay. The slew cursor issues were never addressed and a brilliant dude from England has now supplied Warthog owners all over the globe with a much higher quality replacement. Instead of addressing the stiction issues with the Warthog stick base, TM seriously went to sell the same old base and the same old grip under new names when the DCS F-16 came out. Dying PCBs that allegedly suffer from a shortcoming where TM saved a few cents in production were never addressed and customers had to flesh out some additional 50 Euros for replacement PCBs, which are of course the exact same model and will probably die in another few years (my throttle was 7 years in service when it died, and I know of people with units as young as 2 or 3 years, just barely beyond the binding warranty in my country, when the units died for no apparent reason).

 

Finally, with FS2020 and the Corona crisis, it's understandable that prices go up, and I assume TM themselves don't actually profit, while the dealers between TM and us presumably profit BIG TIME. Instead of immediately following the trend, Virpil at least kept their prices extremely steady; if I'm not mistaken, the CM2 grip may even have become a little cheaper. All the while Virpil, VKB and new competitors start punching out new, fresh and innovative products for a large variety of aircraft.

 

So are they greedy? I don't think so. Especially these days, they could very easily try to profit from the market situation, but they don't, which tells me that their margins are probably very realistic. And if they happen to get rich - awesome, that's a free market. And quite honestly, TM should hire those guys or buy them up. I'm seeing TM on the decline, with their big lack of innovation, their incredibly slow reaction times and their inability to supply the market with a sufficient number of units during times of high demand. And don't get me started on the fundamental shortcomings of TARGET that (I think) have never been addressed in 10 years...

 

Finally, when I compare that to NVidia, who basically owned the market and doubled and tripled prices within a few years - THAT is greedy.

[Gunnar81]

On 2/2/2021 at 3:00 PM, Concentric Arc said:

 

Are you sure? I was looking at a Gladiator NXT Premium version earlier today. The price was $150US dollars, plus $45US shipping, plus import fees. So probably closer to $300 Canadian. That is off of the VKBSim North America site.

 

Haha! You were right, I thought I was paying Canadian should have payed more attention I guess. So yes plus a 29$ customs fee on top of everything else it ends up being 300$ CAD ish.

[Dangerzone]

17 hours ago, Yurgon said:

 

TM should hire those guys or buy them up.

 

I like everything you wrote - I thought it was brilliant... except for that last part. 

 

For me - one of the reason that Virpil and VKB can release such great products and features is because they're not strapped into the mindset of the larger companies management. They do things differently.  They're listening to what users actually want.  Logitech's takeover from Saitek is a perfect example of this. The big companies are lazy, stagnant and have little care for quality.  Buying up these small companies won't improve the bigger companies - it will just take away the competition and drag their products down to their quality, load us up with poor quality bloatware software to use functions instead of the smooth and slick programming of the chipset ourselves. They'll cut corners to save that extra dollar as the bean counters strip away to a price that maximise consumer throughput of product instead of a niche market that focuses on quality and end user experience.  Basically for all the reasons you've expressed in your post - these are the reasons I wouldn't want to see ths happen.

 

I've seen this happen to too many smaller businesses first hand. Great business. Money thrown at them, and the change in operation means they're never as good as they once were.

 

TM and Logitech have their product and their market. If they want to improve - let them do it by doing it themselves, not by cancelling the competition. Competition and choice is great for us all, and the more the merrier. I'm just absolutely wrapped that we have two different high-end companies going head to head between Virpil, VKB (or you could say 3 if you add Winwing!). 

 

I reckon the best thing we can do is advertise them more to our friends and support these guys. If it wasn't for me being a forum junky I'd have thought the best product out there was the TM warthog because I'd only see what retail shops have to offer. 

[Yurgon]

51 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

I like everything you wrote - I thought it was brilliant... except for that last part. 

 

I actually regretted the way I wrote it right away, but then was too tired to edit it.

 

I agree with you 100%. What I meant was not that I'd be happy if TM bought Virpil or VKB; quite the contrary, that would most likely be bad for us customers. I meant if TM was being smart, they would seriously consider buying either or both of these companies (probably also Winwing), or at least try to hire their lead developers.

[Concentric Arc]

17 hours ago, Gunnar81 said:

Haha! You were right, I thought I was paying Canadian should have payed more attention I guess. So yes plus a 29$ customs fee on top of everything else it ends up being 300$ CAD ish.

As a fellow Canadian, I was really hoping you were right lol. I would have bought it on the spot for $150 CDN Pesos.