[AS INTENDE] NVG ASR Operation - Automatic 3rd gen NVG shutdown when looking at HUD.

[Fri13]

 

Reference: NWP 3-22.5-AV8B, Vol. I (pg. 1-172) - AV8BB-TAC-00-(630-1)11-CATI, Figure 1-109, 1-119, 1-120.

 

There is a ASR system (Automatic Scene Reject) for the NVG that should automatically turn off NVG intensifier image when looking at HUD +/- 10° from centerline by detectin IR radiation that is integrated to HUD camera (pilot adjustable to get proper angle). The vertical adjustment allows +12/-10° range.

The HUD and FLIR resolutions are degraded when looking through NVG, making even in some cases impossible see speed, altitude and other various information when the seat height is wrong (part of the seat height adjustment requirement) or that the bombing accuracy will be adversely affected.  The pilot can control the IR radiator that triggers the automatic NVG shutoff with HOTAS "HUD Scene Reject" SSS feature if the flight conditions warrants to use NVG when looking through HUD.

 

The ASR system is turned On via the NVG switch. There is Up-Central-Down positions. The UP position turns On the intensifier tubes and ASR system. The Central will turn NVG Off. And Down turns On the intensifier tubes but disables ASR functionality.

 

Question: The documentation doesn't seem to separate the two NVG's we can have, the ANVIS NVG or Cats Eyes NVG. They do separate their technology, field of view and problems etc but for the automatic turnoff is not clear that it would be just for Cats Eyes and not to our ANVIS as well. The illustration in figure will show it is as well for ANVIS NVG.  Does anyone know more detailed about this?

 

 

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

Not known if this is able to be implemented as the NVGs are a filter added to the screen and not n fact a separate sensor. Going to keep this here as FUTURE IMPLEMENTATION but most likely will not.

[Fri13]

I don't know what sensor has to do with it in DCS, as in real world the HUD camera has IR light that is projected to it, and then the NVG has the sensor in it that will detect that IR light and shut off the light intensifier, and you get just a optical through seeing.

 

How to implement is that the NVG effect is removed automatically when HUD comes to its view, and you maintain just the black circles around the view without the green filter effect.

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

On 2/13/2021 at 10:20 AM, Fri13 said:

I don't know what sensor has to do with it in DCS, as in real world the HUD camera has IR light that is projected to it, and then the NVG has the sensor in it that will detect that IR light and shut off the light intensifier, and you get just a optical through seeing.

 

How to implement is that the NVG effect is removed automatically when HUD comes to its view, and you maintain just the black circles around the view without the green filter effect.

As I said its either on or off in DCS, unless ED has a fancy way of being able to code head position relative to whether the NVG is on or off we are unaware.

[Fri13]

3 hours ago, RAZBAM_ELMO said:

As I said its either on or off in DCS, unless ED has a fancy way of being able to code head position relative to whether the NVG is on or off we are unaware.

 

Head position shouldn't matter, only question is that can the NVG flicked On/Off by any means by the module. It is then the player head position that triggers the NVG On/Off. Just like now the player sets NVG On or Off, and possible be modded to look different and set by even user to different size, it is just question that module sets the FOV position to enable it go On/Off automatically with own custom NVG goggles.

 

Edit: It is basically same thing as JHMCS, except instead NVG goggles effect.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Fri13

[Wisky]

i am sure there is some fancy joy2key software that you could use for your Track-IR Y Axis input to map to a button press if in a certain band

[Fri13]

23 hours ago, Wisky said:

i am sure there is some fancy joy2key software that you could use for your Track-IR Y Axis input to map to a button press if in a certain band

 

Such things could be done, but the point is that the real NVG functionality is implemented.

 

The HUD is challenging to look at with NVG. Why there is the automatic shut-off mode implemented. So when your NVG model (either one) detects the IR emission on HUD, they will automatically shut down so you can look through normally the data and when you have the FLIR on HUD.

It is not about "flip up the NVG" or like that, the NVG stays down on your eyes but you just lose the light intensification.

 

This is part of the "Night Attack" harrier capabilities and limitations.

[Pacbeachdr]

16 hours ago, Fri13 said:

 

Such things could be done, but the point is that the real NVG functionality is implemented.

 

The HUD is challenging to look at with NVG. Why there is the automatic shut-off mode implemented. So when your NVG model (either one) detects the IR emission on HUD, they will automatically shut down so you can look through normally the data and when you have the FLIR on HUD.

It is not about "flip up the NVG" or like that, the NVG stays down on your eyes but you just lose the light intensification.

 

This is part of the "Night Attack" harrier capabilities and limitations.

 

What you describe is in the publication you are referencing, but that publication is extremely out dated. The current NVG systems being used in the aircraft do not function as you are describing. There is no longer an auto scene reject system, and the NVG's intensifier does not turn off when looking at the HUD. The NVG's do, however, have an automatic gain control that helps when looking at scenes with varying brightness. While the current NVG model in DCS is not perfect, it is a fairly accurate depiction of current NVG functionality. 

[Fri13]

20 minutes ago, Pacbeachdr said:

 

What you describe is in the publication you are referencing, but that publication is extremely out dated. The current NVG systems being used in the aircraft do not function as you are describing. There is no longer an auto scene reject system, and the NVG's intensifier does not turn off when looking at the HUD. The NVG's do, however, have an automatic gain control that helps when looking at scenes with varying brightness. While the current NVG model in DCS is not perfect, it is a fairly accurate depiction of current NVG functionality. 

 

Razbam own page talks about these 3rd gen NVG use. Or are we now going to get a new one from 2018 as well? 

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

10 hours ago, Fri13 said:

 

Razbam own page talks about these 3rd gen NVG use. Or are we now going to get a new one from 2018 as well? 

That was in refference to the quality of the image through the NVGS. As stated by Pacbeachdr, the system is not integrated with the NA and more modern NVGS have auto gain especially on the II+. Just getting back to this as the SME was scrolling through and noticed it.

 

Marking AS INTENDED and moving to RESOLVED