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WW2 assets for F4U-1D - Essex Class carrier


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I created separate topic about incoming assets for F4U-1D: CV-17 Bunker hill (?).

 

Xmy4LxL.jpg

 

16147dbcaa24de07be2e8d47fdebf622.jpg

 

Any more news from develper? More screenies pls and info about ATC options here :bye_2:. Thx!


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and btw. perhaps color of the digits in model is wrong (I know, wip still). It was like on this diagram above (dark with white edges).

 

ZOJQdpbm.jpg


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Keep in mind that the deck was painted many times during its carreer and the manner in which the ship's numbers were presented may have changed, depending on what paint was available or maybe even what on how the current captain wanted it done. I wouldn't get too wrapped up in that minutia. I would be more concerned about seeing that Corsair on short final with those antenna still errected! 😂

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We're making an Essex Class carrier.  That doesn't mean specifically the Bunker Hill.  What's pictured above is just a placeholder.

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15 hours ago, -Rudel- said:

We're making an Essex Class carrier.  That doesn't mean specifically the Bunker Hill.  What's pictured above is just a placeholder.

 

Ahh, ok so I'll change the name of the topic but this skin of Corsair is from USS Bunker hill too :grin: so it colud be:

 

Vought-F4U-1D-Corsair-VF-84-White-122-re

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  • YoYo changed the title to WW2 assets for F4U-1D - Essex Class carrier

Who made that picture of the F4U approaching the "Bunker Hill"?  I see what looks like pairs of twin 40mm mounts imbedded in the aft edge of the flight deck.  I think those are totally bogus.  I'm pretty certain all 40mm mounts on US aircraft carriers, and most other US capital ships were quad mounts, where all four barrels trained and elevated together, and were usually directed by a nearby Mk51 director mount.  Those manning the gun mount were mostly just handling ammunition, I believe.  But they wouldn't put guns, or anybody on the aft flight deck edge (there is probably a proper name for that, I can't recall), for obvious reasons...airplanes sometimes hit that deck edge.

Also, unlikely to see a completely clear deck, as shown.  Most likely there would be planes parked forward on the deck and personnel visible in safe locations.  And I'm pretty sure any radio antenna towers would be lowered for flight operations.  And where's the LSO?  A pretty picture, but not very accurate.

The 5-view illustration below that is much more accurate.  The Bunker Hill had eight 40mm quad-mounts...4 on the island superstructure, 1 on the bow and 1 on the fan tail (under the flight deck), and one each next to the pair of single 5-inch mounts in the gun gallery below the port side of the flight deck, fore and aft.

There may have been differences in all of the Essex-class ships, and they changed a bit during each shipyard visit during WWII...they changed substantially after WWII.  I would hope a "nominal" "long-bow" variant of about early 1945 would be modeled in DCS.  But I'll take any one you choose. 🙂  The developer will get it right. 👍  And then modify that model to be an SCB-27C variant with 2 steam catapults and an angled flight deck of the 1960's, for the F-8J Crusader.   The Ticonderoga would be a good choice for both time periods.  But don't get stuck on one particular ship.

 

BTW, here's a webpage that describes the operation of a Mk51 director with a 40mm twin or quad mount pretty well.

History and Technology - The Mark 51 FCS - NavWeaps  -- http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-049.php


Edited by Andrew8604
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On 2/1/2021 at 1:41 PM, -Rudel- said:

....What's pictured above is just a placeholder.

 

All Long and Short Hull Essex class carriers utilized 4 x Twin 5in mounts.

Attached are some bogus images.

017A.jpg

1920px-USS_Boxer_(CVA-21)_underway_off_Korea_in_July_1953.jpg

CV-17_deck_as_laboratory_NAN1-68.jpg


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On 2/1/2021 at 10:41 AM, -Rudel- said:

What's pictured above is just a placeholder.

Okay, if that "bogus" illustration was just a place holder...I'm sorry.  I didn't understand, before.  It didn't look like DCS work.  The pictures, though, are NOT bogus.  🙂  

 

On 2/5/2021 at 11:29 PM, -Rudel- said:

All Long and Short Hull Essex class carriers utilized 4 x Twin 40mm mounts.

I respectfully beg to differ.  Although, maybe we just have a misunderstanding of terminology between us.  A US Navy "Quad" 40mm AA gun mount, had four 40mm barrels...quad.  They were grouped on the mount as if a pair of "Twin-mounts".   A "twin" 40mm mount had only two barrels, mounted close together.  There were also "single" 40mm mounts with just one barrel.  In the picture above of the USS Boxer, CV-21 (a "long bow" Essex-class), we can see two Quad 40mm mounts, side-by-side, with their Mk51 or Mk57 director on the tall pedestal between them on the fantail.  This is a Korean War-era photo, as you can see Panther and Banshee jets on the deck...and maybe Skyraiders forward.  To the best of my knowledge, there were never "Twin" 40mm mounts on Essex-class carriers.  There were quad, twin and single 40mm mounts on the Independence-class light carriers, CVLs, though (not to be confused with CVE escort carriers, like the Casablanca-class).

 

The picture above the Boxer is a "short-bow" Essex-class.  It had only one quad 40mm mount on the bow and one on the stern.  It also had four quad 40mm mounts on the island superstructure and two quad 40mm mounts on the port side of the ship...one each next to the open 5in mounts, forward and aft along the port side.  A total of eight quad 40mm mounts (32 gun barrels, in all).  Farther up this topic is a 5-view illustration of the Bunker Hill, where the locations of all eight quad 40mm mounts can be seen.

 

The "long bow" Essex's had two quad 40mm mounts on the bow and on the stern (as the Boxer does).  I believe they also had more quad 40mm mounts on additional sponsons along the port and starboard sides.  I think that short-bow Essex's also had some more quad 40mm mounts on sponsons added later in the war.  The way the ships' armaments and radars changed throughout the war, I think you can only make a "nominal" Essex-class.  But that would be plenty good!

 

I think they seldom aimed these 40mm mounts by the pointer and trainer positions on the mount itself...the "tractor seats" with the open iron sights.  They were remotely aimed by a nearby Mk51 director sight with lead computing.  My understanding is that control of various 40mm mounts could be paired up with different Mk51 directors via a fire control switchboard in the lower decks of the ships.

 

What difference does this make to DCS?  Depends on how much detail of operation is to simulated in the ship.  And also would be important if there is ever to be gun positions that can be "manned" by the player.  Aiming a few mounts of 40mm via a Mk51, lead-computing director could be an interesting experience in DCS.  And these mounts and directors were on most other ships, too...destroyers, cruisers and battleships.  I'm talking about the 1943-45 time period...and into the early 50's.  The era of the F4U Corsair.

 

My intention is not to knock you or tell you you're wrong.  Just that I think I might have the more correct information, in this case.  Or maybe we're miscommunicating.  If you are making the Essex-class carrier for DCS in WWII configuration...and I hope you are...that you get it as authentic and accurate as possible.  Can't wait to see them in DCS!!

 

And if you already know all this stuff...I apologize for repeating it.

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The screenshot is actually from DCS, using a very early build.

I'm sure we have the the same information.  We're not going to just model something without research.
To include NARA documents, Ordnance Pamphlets, etc

The Essex variant under construction will be a Short Haul, with late-war modifications.  May 1944-1945
SK-2 long range air search antenna (pending)
Mk 12 and 22 Fire Control Antennas on Mk 37 Directors

Extended flag bridge (one 40mm Bofors quad mount removed)
Dazzle paint scheme

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On 2/13/2021 at 1:54 AM, -Rudel- said:

The screenshot is actually from DCS, using a very early build.

...and that's why you said "place holder".  Got it.  🙂  Excellent!!  Looking forward, very much, to operating the Corsair from this carrier.  Sounds good.  Short-hull (or bow) or long-hull...to me it's like...flip a coin.  I'll be happy with either one.  Thank you for taking it under "construction"!

...and it will make a good home for a Hellcat, Avenger and Helldiver someday...whoever makes them...I hope.  As well as Korean War vintage, F4U-4 Corsair, Panther, Banshee, Skyraider and Sikorsky HO3S-1 helicopter.

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  • 4 months later...
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On 2/13/2021 at 9:54 AM, -Rudel- said:

The screenshot is actually from DCS, using a very early build.

I'm sure we have the the same information.  We're not going to just model something without research.
To include NARA documents, Ordnance Pamphlets, etc

The Essex variant under construction will be a Short Haul, with late-war modifications.  May 1944-1945
SK-2 long range air search antenna (pending)
Mk 12 and 22 Fire Control Antennas on Mk 37 Directors

Extended flag bridge (one 40mm Bofors quad mount removed)
Dazzle paint scheme

 

@-Rudel-On What ship has based? (Hull name)
 

Essex CV
Displacement: 27208 std, In Class: 24 + 2 + 6
Size Class: A/Large, In Svc: 1942
Propulsion: Steam Turbine, Crew: 2900
Signature: Large/Loud, Armor Rating: 9/6/180


Weapons: Gunnery Standard: IV
F/A(2)4 Mk32 5in/38//2 Mk4 C
PW/PQ&P(1)4 Mk24 5in/38//2 Mk4 C
3 Elevators, 1 Flight deck catapult, 2 Hangar deck catapults --
Area AA: (2)4 Mk32 and (1)4 Mk24 5in/38 (3.4)
Light AA: (4)8 40mm, 46 20mm (19.5)

 

Sensors:
SK, SG-2, SC-2 J


Air Group:
Rated for 91 aircraft - typical load 36 fighters, 36 bombers, 18 torpedo bombers


Remarks:
Essex, Yorktown (ii), Intrepid, Hornet (ii), Franklin, Ticonderoga, Randolph, Lexington (ii), Bunker Hill, Wasp (ii), Hancock, Bennington, Boxer, Bon Homme Richard, Leyte, Kearsarge, Oriskany, Antietam, Princeton, Shangri-La, Lake Champlain, Tarawa, Valley Forge, Philippine Sea. Ttwo additional units (Reprisal, Iwo Jima)
canceled and scrapped incomplete, six additional units canceled in Mar 45 before being laid down. Improved and enlarged Yorktown class, fitted with deck-edge elevator. Sensors updated as new types available.


• Due to topweight problems, Essex as built had no flight deck catapults, Lexington (ii) had one flight deck catapult, and all others had one flight deck and one double athwartships catapult.
• 1943-44: Lt AA battery varied between ships with many ships using twin 20mm mounts. Typical Lt AA battery at war's end was (4)18 40mm, 60 20mm, Lt AA 33.0. Lt AA fit at end of war for specific ships:
Essex: (4)11 40mm, 61 20mm, Lt AA 26.3
Yorktown (ii): (4)17 40mm, 61 20mm, Lt AA 32.3
Intrepid: (4)17 40mm, (2)19 20mm, (1)37 20mm, Lt AA 35.8
Hornet (ii): (4)10 40mm, 61 20mm, Lt AA 25.3
Franklin: (4)18 40mm, 61 20mm, Lt AA 33.3
Lexington (ii): (4)17 40mm, (2)30 20mm, (4)5 .50 cal., Lt AA 33.4
Bunker Hill: (4)17 40mm, (2)35 20mm, Lt AA 34.5
Wasp(ii): (4)17 40mm, (2)29 20mm, (4)6 .50 cal., Lt AA 33.2
• Mar 1960: Essex redesignated CVS.
• Mar 1962: Intrepid redesignated CVS.
• Oct 1962: Lexington redesignated CVS.
• 26 Oct 1966: Oriskany suffered fire on board.
• Jun 1969: Shagri La redesignated CVS.
• Oct 1969: Ticonderoga redesignated CVS.


Damage & Speed Breakdown:
Dam Pts: 0 193 386 579 695 772
Surf Speed: 33 25 16 8 0 Sinks
 

 


Edited by Silver_Dragon
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  • 4 months later...
On 7/5/2021 at 1:05 AM, Pikey said:

Does this come at release of the plane to EA or after?

With

On 2/1/2021 at 7:54 AM, AG-51_Razor said:

Keep in mind that the deck was painted many times during its carreer and the manner in which the ship's numbers were presented may have changed, depending on what paint was available or maybe even what on how the current captain wanted it done. I wouldn't get too wrapped up in that minutia. I would be more concerned about seeing that Corsair on short final with those antenna still errected! 😂

Wait what? You can retract that?

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23 minutes ago, jabbabzh said:

May we can expect deck crew for Essex?


Not likely, it’s not a supercarrier module … it will be like the Forrestal .. hopefully usable even by people that didn’t purchase the Corsair.

 

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  • 3 months later...
On 2/11/2022 at 3:43 AM, jabbabzh said:

May we can expect deck crew for Essex?

 

On 2/11/2022 at 4:08 AM, Rudel_chw said:


Not likely, it’s not a supercarrier module … it will be like the Forrestal .. hopefully usable even by people that didn’t purchase the Corsair.

While the Corsair might not be a supercarrier module, I'm wondering if it would be possible for ED to have some code to get SC features in if you have the SC or licences out some of the tech?

 


Edited by upyr1
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7 hours ago, upyr1 said:

 

While the Corsair might not be a supercarrier module, I'm wondering if it would be possible for ED to have some code to get SC features in if you have the SC or licences out some of the tech?

 

 

So far it hasn't been done with the Forestal which is closer to the supercarrier than the Essex class carrier that we will get with the Corsair. Also with it being WWII I guess it will require substantial work to implement as I would assume that carrier ops were quite different than the modern stuff. Still one can hope. Just don't expect it any time soon.

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38 minutes ago, Lieuie said:

So far it hasn't been done with the Forestal which is closer to the supercarrier than the Essex class carrier that we will get with the Corsair. Also with it being WWII I guess it will require substantial work to implement as I would assume that carrier ops were quite different than the modern stuff. Still one can hope. Just don't expect it any time soon.

I think it might be planned with the Forrestal I might be wrong  here is a video of an  carrier ops from an Essex class carrier in the Korean War 

 


Edited by upyr1
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9 hours ago, upyr1 said:

I think it might be planned with the Forrestal I might be wrong  here is a video of an  carrier ops from an Essex class carrier in the Korean War 

 

 

As far as I know about the Forrestal Supercarrier integration Heatblur was discussing it with ED but so far no news.

I haven't found any newer information than this one.

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