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Indian Su-30MKI to Red Flag '08


Kusch

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Interesting photos. It must be a strange feeling hearing the flankers roar in the US desert. :D

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A video I posted here last month, my brother on the commands of that plane. ;)

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Eurofighters been defeated by block 15 F-16's in scripted WVR exercises over here. So yes, the pilot skill still makes the difference on non stealth planes.

 

How scripted?? ;).. An F18 got a guns kill against an F22 .. or maybe not ;). Anyway an F16 WVR kill against a Eurofighter ?.. I'd like to know what the ROE was for that engagement. Were there more than one Falcon, did they merge first, was it just ACM practice, or was the F16 given an advantage etc. Even so you'd still have to expect an F22 or Typhoon to loose at some point but that doesn't mean it's an actual capability of the opposing aircraft.

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How scripted?? ;).. An F18 got a guns kill against an F22 .. or maybe not ;). Anyway an F16 WVR kill against a Eurofighter ?.. I'd like to know what the ROE was for that engagement. Were there more than one Falcon, did they merge first, was it just ACM practice, or was the F16 given an advantage etc. Even so you'd still have to expect an F22 or Typhoon to loose at some point but that doesn't mean it's an actual capability of the opposing aircraft.

 

I dont know the script details intimatly, but the video I posted last month tells an encounter depicting 6 F-16's defending a CASA-212 droping parachute troops against any number of Eurofighters encountered. radars missiles (pods) are all used, including jammers. Heard stories of 2VS2 encounters as well as much larger furballs, wich indluded F-18's and Mirage F1's besides the Eurofighter.

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F-5's can't even stay in a turn with an F-22 at altitude ... what are you talking about? ;)

We only have one pic of a raptor in a gunsight, and a that, out of all the WVR engagements there's something like 2-3 raptor kills vs. how many bandit kills? ;)

GG you know how realistic this kind of exercise are? Im asking this because the F-5EM from Brazil in the end have a very good kill ratio against the agressors [ F-15 65º Squadron and F-16 64º Squadron] the win ratio was near 60% above

 

The F-5EM in nellis arent yet fully upgraded lacking the HMD and Data Link

 

No one?

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The mission of aggressor squadrons is to provide training, not to achieve air superiority. Not that I would know anything about it, but if I understood well interviews in magazines like Airforces Monthly or Combat Aircraft, they often discuss with the incoming training party what kind of scenario's they wish to train for, and adapt their fighting skills to a certain level, so that there is a real training effect.

 

As an experienced fighter pilot, agressors could probably outfox a lot of novice pilots in WVR engagements. But that is not the point. The point should be that there is learning activity.

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The mission of aggressor squadrons is to provide training, not to achieve air superiority. Not that I would know anything about it, but if I understood well interviews in magazines like Airforces Monthly or Combat Aircraft, they often discuss with the incoming training party what kind of scenario's they wish to train for, and adapt their fighting skills to a certain level, so that there is a real training effect.

 

As an experienced fighter pilot, agressors could probably outfox a lot of novice pilots in WVR engagements. But that is not the point. The point should be that there is learning activity.

 

 

Yes but this win ratio was on BVR engagements not in WVR.

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All F-5's have been underpowered. Chances gainst the F-22 with a competent pilot are nill to none.

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An F-5 would have a slim chance in a BVR engagement with any modern fighter.

 

an F-5 yes...but an F-5EM [modernized by Embraer and elbit] have near of 60% more victorys against the agressors...

 

This is why i wanna know HOW realistic this kind off exercise are....this result really impressed me.

 

And the pilot told the agressors have more advantages from the start like get back TO LIFE or GET REARMED automatically when they fly over some predermined point.

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All F-5's have been underpowered. Chances gainst the F-22 with a competent pilot are nill to none.

 

They figth against F-15 and F-16 in red flag

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an F-5 yes...but an F-5EM [modernized by Embraer and elbit] have near of 60% more victorys against the agressors...

 

Nope.

 

This is why i wanna know HOW realistic this kind off exercise are....this result really impressed me.

 

The exercises have some limitations. If you just whoop up on your opponent you aren't learning anything.

 

And the pilot told the agressors have more advantages from the start like get back TO LIFE or GET REARMED automatically when they fly over some predermined point.

 

Which can lead to very close 'respawn kills'. ;)

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They figth against F-15 and F-16 in red flag

 

I think you are missing the point of the Red Flag training or any military training. AFAIK the aggressor squadrons are not there to fight with the trainees and defeat them. Most, if not all, aggressor pilots are very, very experience guys and they would have the advantage against most pilots but what would the trainees learn from being defeated? The aggressor will make it hard but they have to fight the F-5 (or any aircraft for that matter) fight. That way the trainees can take something from the whole exercise and learn and hopefully, be able to pass that experiences among their Home unit pilots and better train improving their training at their home base. Just because an aircraft defeats and aggressor aircraft does not mean that aircraft is better that the Aggressors. I bet if they take all restrictions from the aggressors, they would win most of the engagement. Remember, they can re-spond during the exercises and they are very aggressive and experience pilots. My two cents anyway.

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Nope.

 

GG i was not asking :thumbup: ..this is a real score in the end of the exercise the F-5 HAVE a near 60% win ratio over the agressors

 

The pilot also told that most of the engagements occur at 30 / 40 / 50 miles and WHEN this combat happens within or less 18 miles they have f..up the mission somewhere. :smartass:

 

 

The exercises have some limitations. If you just whoop up on your opponent you aren't learning anything.

 

I know that also GG this is why i wanna know what kind of limitations are aplied in the exercise :)

 

 

Which can lead to very close 'respawn kills'. ;)

the respawn areas are not IN RANGE to get you killed and i assume the BLUE force dont know where they can find it :D

 

 

Im asking this because i wanna try to figure out the real capabilities of the F-5EM and its radar .....and to do that i need to know what kind of limitations was in plance during the exercise

 

cya

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If I'm right Brazil is testing the Denel R-Darter missile on the F-5EM (F-5BR). This missile seems no longer in production, but there is a South-African stock left. I dunno about the F-5EM's radar, but often a Grifo radar is mounted as an upgrade for F-5.

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If I'm right Brazil is testing the Denel R-Darter missile on the F-5EM (F-5BR). This missile seems no longer in production, but there is a South-African stock left. I dunno about the F-5EM's radar, but often a Grifo radar is mounted as an upgrade for F-5.

 

 

The missile used is the Derby not the Darter..i have some info on the radar but nothing official

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The F-5's might be neat for exercises but as I see it, when it comes to real war these planes would have several shortcomings. First of all, fuel and range. Weapon carriage (2 derbies is nothing to write home about), then the grifo radar wich gives me some doubs about its reach and ECm resistance.

 

In a real fight those F-5's would be overrun and outgunned quickly by any other modern fighter.

 

For all intents and purposes the brazilian mirage 2000 albeit deprived of datalink to awacs might be in the end a more powerfull weapon.

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Not everyone can be an agressor, either in US or Russia, the only two countries that use this kind of training. It doesn't mean that you have to kick the a$$ of everyone you fight with in the exercise. Agressor's primary role is to simulate the potential adversary that the regular pilots of the own air force might face in combat. That means that the agressor must study and understand really deep the tactics of the side he plays in the training fights. In US the F-5 must fly like MiG-21, the F-18 has to duplicate the MiG-29 etc. This is something that requires a lot of knowledge in both own and adversary's aircraft and tactics.

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