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Rudder Pedals: opinions


Sr.

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To date, I've gotten by using twist axis on my flight stick for rudder, but lately I'm thinking of picking up a set of pedals.

 

Would appreciate feedback for these from actual users.

 

https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/products/flight/flight-simulator-rudder-pedals.945-000024.html#product-tech-specs

 

 

rudder.JPG

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29 minutes ago, jpinard said:

What flight stick do you have?

VKB NXT premium, prior to that an X-56


Edited by Sr.

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"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

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4 minutes ago, Sr. said:

VKB NXT premium, prior to that an X-56

 

Do you mind if I ask how you like it and how it's different or excels vs. the X-56?  I need a new flight stick and am a bit lost.  Also wondering why you chose the VKB instead of one of the other brands like Warthog?  And what do you use for throttle?

 

Thanks!  🙂


Edited by jpinard
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6 minutes ago, jpinard said:

Do you mind if I ask how you like it and how it's different or excels vs. the X-56?  I need a new flight stick and am a bit lost.  Also wondering why you chose the VKB instead of one of the other brands like Warthog?  And what do you use for throttle?

 

Thanks!  🙂

 

 

I am using an X-56 throttle. With one simple modifier button on the stick, I have way more buttons, axis and switches than I can even find a use for.

 

My original reason for purchasing the X-56 HOTAS was availability. At the time, ANY HOTAS was hard to find in advance of MSFS2020. I got lucky one afternoon while checking Logitech's site (for the 100th time) and they had it listed as order now... so I did 🙂

 I really had nothing to go by before purchasing either stick (other than reviews and videos) for me personally, the X-56 was just too big for my hand size to operate efficiently. And some just due to poor placement of hats.

 

My Brother has a Warthog HOTAS, so I got to try it and like it enough, even though I thought it was a bit on the stiff side, which I'm sure is by design and intended to be used with an extension. I would maybe have gone with the WH stick, if I could have found one for a less rapey price, or just found one at all.

 

So far, IMO the VKB NXT excels vs. the X-56 in ergonomics (size, grip, hat/button placement) footprint etc. But mostly the "action" of the stick, is more realistic when returning to center. It doesn't to the typical snap back and forth until "centering" when released. It simply moves back to center.

 

This guy does a much better demonstration of this than I can with words. I keep seeing the NXT described as a "beginner" flight stick. I beg to differ.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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With the X-56 throttle have you had any issues with it sticking at any point along its travel?  I heard that's an issue for some.  I'm sog lad to hear someone else saying their hands were too small for Saitek/Logitech sticks.  Thought maybe I was alone in that aspect.  So are you quite happy with the Gladiator NXT?  Is there anything you don't like about it, or would like to have them improve?

 

Once again, thanks for taking the time to talk about this.

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1 minute ago, jpinard said:

With the X-56 throttle have you had any issues with it sticking at any point along its travel?  I heard that's an issue for some.  I'm sog lad to hear someone else saying their hands were too small for Saitek/Logitech sticks.  Thought maybe I was alone in that aspect.  So are you quite happy with the Gladiator NXT?  Is there anything you don't like about it, or would like to have them improve?

 

Once again, thanks for taking the time to talk about this.

I have had a couple buttons start sticking or just not return to their center, but I resolve those with a couple shots of contact cleaner spray and a light bit of WD40.

 

The throttle axis travel did seem "weird" at first, but on advice of a poster on Reddit, I removed the base and scraped out some of the gooey damping lube, which helped immediately. The tensioner adjustment dial on the side is hit or miss.

Man, I can't say enough how much I LOVE this stick. Feels like it was made for my hand. The grip feels almost identical to the grip on my M-4 carbine 🙂 so that's a plus.

I like that all of the hats have a push function, very handy. I use one to toggle NVG, one for returning A-10C TGP to boresight.

 

Dislikes: if anything, it would be their config software. Not much of a manual and it's not very intuitive (compared to the Logitech app), but I guess that will improve over time.

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I have that rudder pedal. Just ordered an MFG Crosswind. While the Saitek is fine, it feels cheap and springy, with a pronounced center detent. I'm hoping the MFG is better in that regard.

Sim Rig: Intel 12700KF, MSI RTX4090, 32GB DDR4@3200, Quest 3 headset, TM Warthog HOTAS, MFG Crosswind pedals

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So you don't have a separate throttle?

3 minutes ago, TimberWolf said:

I have that rudder pedal. Just ordered an MFG Crosswind. While the Saitek is fine, it feels cheap and springy, with a pronounced center detent. I'm hoping the MFG is better in that regard.

 

Will you post here how you like it after you get them?

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On 2/5/2021 at 6:54 AM, Sr. said:

To date, I've gotten by using twist axis on my flight stick for rudder, but lately I'm thinking of picking up a set of pedals.

 

Would appreciate feedback for these from actual users.

 

Real pilot CH Pro and VKB T-Rudder user here chiming in here - speaking from my personal opinion only:

 

I found the CH Pro pedals (and similar ones such as the Thrustmaster T-Flight) don't actually add a level of realism to the game. Yes - they add another option for input, but talking from my RL experience - in a real modern aircraft our heels go on the ground, and we push the rudder with the balls of our feet. If we're on the ground and need breaking then we move the toes up to the top where the brakes are and will apply the braking pressure.

 

So...sure - the CHPro/VKB T-Flight/Logitech give another axis or two to control using the feet so expand the options available and are a benefit... but in contrary to realism/RL I found these pedals that have a foot rest/lip where the entire foot rests on the pedals themselves. I have found this to be less realistic, and harder to provide precise input than what I would normally experience IRL. (Although of course still more realistic than a twist stick). Also while going through some back problems I found that resting my entire feet up on the pedals also induced a bit of lower back discomfort. 

 

I switched to the VKB T-Rudders instead. Now these don't have differential toe brakes (which I thought would be a problem but I found I don't miss one bit at all with DCS). I find them far more easier to use and I have much greater control / precision as to how much input I put in. Like real rudders I rest my heel on the floor - not on the rudders, but unlike real ones I don't push forward, but rather lift and lower my toes on the end to put in the input. 

 

If I really wanted closer to reality I'd probably opt for the Thrustmaster  TPR Pendular or something similar, but I am very happy with my VKB T-Rudder pedals as they give me the most precise input in game, and the most comfort without feeling like I'm sacrificing anything. 

 

I'm not saying what you should go with - your priorities may be very different to mine - just giving you a different perspective to add to your toolbox for making a decision. Hope this is of help.


Edited by Dangerzone
Correction
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Just for the comparison that what price does....

 

And the Logitech is realistic, just not to all modern western fighters.....

Like example the Harrier has those kind pedals, whole foot is in the pedals.

 

The Messerschmitt uses those....

 

And what comes to breaking with the pedals, not really required, why T-rudders work great.

 

 

If I want to turn at slow speed, I use NWS feature instead brakes. And if I want to steer when taking off or landing, I use rudders as more effective.

 

Like in the hornet or Harrier I don't use brakes to turn but NWS.

With the MiG-21 I need to use brakes as turning is differential breaking system.

With Su-27 there is a own kind turning system.

 

There is not just one design, there isn't just one method.

 

We do not fly cessna but multiple different kinds.

 

Why I prefer the one that is most pleasant to use in a simulator cockpit, and that is most fitted for simulator without feedback instead real thing with real forces.

 

Lubricating Logitech properly etc will make it fine. But I personally don't like to move legs to use pedals but prefer to move just feets to be more accurate with more comfort.

 

And as mostly I use pedals anyways in a helicopter then T-rudders are best for that as they are exactly like in helicopters pedals are.

 

The Logitech makes great value for the price, what little the rudder needs there really is....

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Have been very happy with my Crosswinds, have had them since Dec 2015.

I have an order in for the F16 style combat footrests for my Crosswinds.

 


Edited by dburne

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Quote

So...sure - the CHPro/VKB T-Rudder/Logitech give another axis or two to control using the feet so expand the options available and are a benefit... but in contrary to realism/RL I found these pedals that have a foot rest/lip where the entire foot rests on the pedals themselves.

 

I think you include T-Rudder in the sentence without intention. because T-Rudder is not designed to be used like CH or Logitech pedals with entire foot resting on the pedals (I have read about some players trying using in this way), but with heels resting on the fixed pads and moving the bar only with toes base pressure.

 

IMO - T-Rudder is not an pedal for one that want "realism", but just easy to use and precise rudder control in games.

 

Quote

...but talking from my RL experience - in a real aircraft our heels go on the ground...

 

Better if say "in a real modern aircraft our heels go on ground..."

 

In real Bf 109, Fw190... the whole foot rests on the pedals...  like in MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals. 😉

 

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12 hours ago, dburne said:

I have an order in for the F16 style combat footrests for my Crosswinds.

I've seen that and other threads about "heel on floor" pedals. What I don't understand is that the Crosswinds allow you to tilt up the pedals until they are almost vertical, so why can't you do heel-on-floor in that configuration? It seems like it would work. I guess I'll figure it out when I get mine in a couple of weeks, but it looks like you can almost cut the bottom off the pedals, or maybe just use a piece of plywood, and get similar results.

Sim Rig: Intel 12700KF, MSI RTX4090, 32GB DDR4@3200, Quest 3 headset, TM Warthog HOTAS, MFG Crosswind pedals

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My primary sim is racing so I've been using my racing pedals as rudders.  Then I switched to using rotary on the Saitek throttle.

I first started using it as rudder trim, then realized you can't assign two axis to rudder in DCS.  So I tried using the rotary as primary rudder.  And because rotary can double as rudder and the trim, it's so much easier.  I don't have to keep constant pressure on the pedal.  It was revelations for me for modules that required constant rudder input like Ka-50.  Altho not realistic.

 

Twist rudder is garbage.  I suggest giving rotary on your throttle a try.


Edited by Taz1004
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On 2/5/2021 at 8:43 PM, Taz1004 said:

My primary sim is racing so I've been using my racing pedals as rudders.  Then I switched to using rotary on the Saitek throttle.

I first started using it as rudder trim, then realized you can't assign two axis to rudder in DCS.  So I tried using the rotary as primary rudder.  And because rotary can double as rudder and the trim, it's so much easier.  I don't have to keep constant pressure on the pedal.  It was revelations for me for modules that required constant rudder input like Ka-50.  Altho not realistic.

 

Twist rudder is garbage.  I suggest giving rotary on your throttle a try.

 

via modifier or how's that work?

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"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

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14 minutes ago, Sr. said:

via modifier or how's that work?

 

I didn't mean set it as both rudder and rudder trim function.  Having a rotary as rudder works like a trim is what I meant.  If you have to keep constant 10% pressure to the right rudder to keep your plane or helicopter straight, then with rotary, you just rotate 10% to the right and leave it to go straight.


Edited by Taz1004
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Another positive vote for VKB

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On 2/6/2021 at 9:46 AM, Sokol1_br said:


I think you include T-Rudder in the sentence without intention.

 

Thanks for picking that up. It should have referenced T-flight in that sentence, which I've now corrected.

 

And true - I've corrected the modern reference too. 🙂

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21 hours ago, Taz1004 said:

 

I didn't mean set it as both rudder and rudder trim function.  Having a rotary as rudder works like a trim is what I meant.  If you have to keep constant 10% pressure to the right rudder to keep your plane or helicopter straight, then with rotary, you just rotate 10% to the right and leave it to go straight.

 

ah, got it.

 

You're right though. I set one of the upper rotaries of my X-56 to rudder and it's so much easier with the Huey.

I tried a set of Logitech Pro pedals and just couldn't take the clunky, non precise movement for helo flying and using the toe brakes while applying rudder was a recipe for disaster with fixed wing.

 

So I'm back to joy twist axis for jets

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"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

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On 2/4/2021 at 8:54 PM, Sr. said:

Would appreciate feedback for these from actual users.

I have used those for a while, but they are not that good. It's fine for casual use or as a starter to get people used to using rudder pedals, but there are far better - and more expensive - units out there. The main problem was that they start wearing out quickly when used frequently, indeed losing precision and smoothness of movement.

I switched to the Thrustmaster TPR ones a while ago and haven't looked back since. For helo flying you should look at something that at least allows for removal of the springs.

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Got my Crosswinds today, and been playing with them for a bit. Initial reaction is that they are much better than the Saitek/Logitech pedals.

 

RAFfTgp.jpg

 

zKkXLJE.jpg

 

First off is the build quality. There is no play with the crosswinds. The Saiteks have a noticeable amount of lateral play in the pedals: they jiggle. The Crosswinds are quieter and much smoother than the Saiteks. Also, they are much more adjustable. Even at the lowest tension, the Saiteks are still a bit too stiff for me, and with a marked centre detent, it is difficult to provide small pedal movements. I like that the angle of the pedals can be adjusted, too.

 

The one thing that I had to get used to is that the Crosswind pedals don't move straight back and forth. Due to the mechanism, the pedals actually describe a shallow arc laterally. It's not bad, just something that I had to get used to. After a few minutes, you don't even notice it. The other nice thing is that the pedals are removeable, so you can add aftermarket pedals, or even make your own. I know there are some 3D-printed pedals for heel-on-floor use. You can also use the stock pedals for that as well, just set the angle more vertical. However, I find that not to be very comfortable. I think you need a low seat, or raise the pedals, for that position to be comfortable. Since I use a normal desk chair, I find the heel-on-pedal position much more comfortable.

 

I don't have any experience with the other high end pedals, but compared to the Saitek, it is far better. If you want pedals, and can't afford more than $200 for a set, the Saitek will work fine. But I don't regret buying the Crosswinds.

Sim Rig: Intel 12700KF, MSI RTX4090, 32GB DDR4@3200, Quest 3 headset, TM Warthog HOTAS, MFG Crosswind pedals

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OP,

 

I had the Logitech for a few years in fact when BlackShark was first released.

 

I have now stopped using them after the spring broke inside the left pedal - this is a known fault with these Rudders  and you can buy a replacement part for it on ebay.

 

Not sure if Saitek has resolved this issue yet. I never noticed how Clonky and Clanky these rudders where until I replaced them with a Thrustmaster TPR....utter silence now!!! What a

 

difference it has made. I find them easier to use and more precise.

 

Now I am not knocking the Logitech as it is all down to preference what is good for me may not necessarily be good for you. 

 

Hope this was useful to you.

 

Rapid

 

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