ZONE 5 HOP 5 and 6

[Thunder_]

ZONE 5 - The training reality is as not seeing before. The Campaign is Amazing ! Feels like real training,  Bug HOP 5 -   You have to explore the RIO seat as well before the engagement and if "something" else happen.

JESTER can't lock targets, don't know if I'm using wrong mode, tried in TWS PSD PTT and SST none worked up to less than 16nm to Bandit.

After the engagement, on Hop 5,  Sniper 3 Exploded by itself 340KT 1.2G's .

Same but Hop 6 so far this time again the wingman explode by itself after the engagement at this time during the re-join as your plane is flying you're able to join up settle for admin home.

Tanker Texaco and Arco does not pop probe for refuelling. 

after the last update now you able to then transit home after being shot down during training. 

Parking Hop 6 Hammer/ Dice came for parking at the wrong parking bay.  

Edited February 5, 2021 by Bozo_

[Stal2k]

Had some issues myself with Hop 5. Bozo_, I think the targeting has to do with them being so low, he isn't actually picking them up on radar. You can work around this by either have him aim the radar lower, or in the STT menu select lock specific target, and choosing the D/L contacts should result in an STT. Not ideal, but I think that is more Jester than the campaign. 

 

Bugs/Problems

 

1. Next flight almost runs into you: On the egress, similar to on hop 3 there is a 2-ship flight inbound to the range that comes dangerously close to you if you are following the waypoints (between IP->WP2). 

 

2. This is on all missions thus far where you are flight lead, when you kiss off your wingman to start your break he immediately cuts hard into you instead of waiting ~20 seconds or so before beginning his break turn. If working around DCS is hard there, would recommend keeping him on the right side and just let the player know you have to let your wing enter the break first. 

2a. Wingman almost seemingly slammed into the mountain on his own, but that might just be DCS being DCS, at least looking at the tacview it's unclear if he despawned on... purpose or hit the mountain. 

 

3. Super nitpicky but on the outro Bio talks about getting the ID before shooting sparrow etc. During the briefing he says all groups are hostile, so no ID should be required. 

 

4.  After parking my plane, the aggressor (agrback in tacview) proceeds to ram into the F-5 static object in front of me occupying the space I assume he wanted. 

 

Here is a video, sorry my sound didn't record but you don't really need it to validate. 

 

[Reflected]

Hi all,

 

Thanks a lot for the feedback, it's really helpful! Let me address them one by one:

 

@Bozo_
- Jester locking - in Hop 5 the bandits are really low. You have to tell him to scan at that distance and altitude. Or go low yourself.

- Tanker: I tested, they work fine. Did you contact them on the correct frequency?

Spoiler

- Parking: this is the side effect of a trick I had to use. After an engagement, the DCS AI often stops obeying orders. They're also terrible at managing their fuel. So I sometimes swap them secretly for a different unit, full of gas. BUT: as a different unit it cannot park at the same spot anymore, because it senses it's still occupied by another one. It's a DCS limitation

- Explosion: this is really worrying me. Can you tell me more? I've just reflown this hop and did not experience what you said. The thing is: there is a "safety trigger". If Hammer gets damaged, he gets exploded to make sure he's really killed. A damaged but not killed aircraft won't follow orders anymore, so it's easier/ cleaner this way. So did he get deactivated or literally exploded? The latter could only happen if he got damaged at that instant. Do you think that could have happened?

 

@Stal2k

1) I moved their flight path a bit now

2) AI wingmen never turn exactly AT the WP, but sometimes before. how far before? That depends on the speed and altitude and can also change with every DCS core AI update, so it's really hard to dial in. See this screenshot, how far beyond Nellis it is. I will update the missions and move it a bit further. It's better to have him fly straight too long, than turn too soon.

Spoiler

 

2b) AI is hard coded for straight in-s. So after the break just forget about them. They'll never fly a proper pattern, I'm glad I could make them fly the initial and the break at least.

3) fair point, no need to VID.

4) See above. Parking spots are a bit of an issue because it's never the same unit that you see take off. This being said he should have stopped before slamming into a static. This is a recurring core bug in DCS, sometimes AI units crash into each other, sometimes they avoid collisions too much and stop behaving altogether.

 

+1: Did you experience any of that explosion Bozo_ talks about? I'd really like to find out what happened there.

 

Thanks again both of you!

Edited February 5, 2021 by Reflected

[Stal2k]

No I didn't notice any exploding of the Wingman, the only exploding was the F-5 on the ramp (video timestamp is 1:12:03). Reviewing the tacview, he didn't 'switch himself' like he usually does in the past with a new unit though, maybe related? Something else I noticed that may or may not be related is during the practice missions with airstarts, a few times I'd get a KIO call when there is still very much an alive hostile. To be fair, it does seem like they disengage and it doesn't seem like a bug (maybe hard deck violation by ai?) but maybe that contributed to getting wires crossed with Bozo_'s experience. Since hammer isn't despawning he could have exploded for any number of reasons like lingering damage, an unseen missile still in the air etc.  

 

To explore a bit further on the whole kiss off thing before the break. I am no procedural expert, but I understood the kiss off for an overhead to occur just before lead pulls into the break 1st, is that accurate? If so I get the workaround is either letting your wingman go first and forgetting about him or just doing it much earlier. The thing is, for folks that are trying to do it sort of how you'd do it for a carrier break (or at least how I understand it to work) your wing gets REALLY close to hitting you, in fact he would have hit me if I didn't move aggressively on an earlier hop. So I guess the question really is, in the interest of working around DCS would it 1) be better if your wing didn't slide to your left to avoid possible collision or 2) add a text disclaimer to the prompt to tell the player to perform the kiss off much earlier, 3) I'm doing it wrong and need to adjust my approach no pun intended. 

 

I attached the Tacview for you if you want to see the behavior after the engagement, wing despawning on landing or the parking incident (although the video shows the result better). please ignore my Syrian lead turn w/ the wildcard haha.  

 

 

 

 

Tacview-20210204-235538-DCS-Zone 5 - 05.zip.acmi

[Reflected]

Thanks. That kill message was very probably due to an AI hard deck violation.

 

With the AI's waypoint a bit further, the kiss off should work now. Will be in a later update. I would definitely not change the order or side, as it would not be realistic.

[Reflected]

About the spontaneous explosion, looks like it's not mission related. Just seen this video on Facebook:

 

https://www.facebook.com/194402095/videos/10100840820353015/

[Thunder_]

Hi Reflected Been away with family, I'm trying to fly the Hop's again don't know how to select a specify hop. That's great ! prob what u said that AI programmed I couldn't notice if there was any bubble violations or shots on Hammer, I will keep an eye on it an report it tnx Bozo.

[Thunder_]

Can I have some help with the refuelling during the Campaign ? I've contacted the correct freq in position with probe, did I miss something ? I couldn't do it again for some reason, 

Excellent Hop's 8,9 and 10 very challenging. Would b nice to have some other briefings from Bio during the mission !! nevertheless amazing, well done Reflected simulations ! 

[Thunder_]

manage to refuel with Arco , no joy with Texaco !

[Thunder_]

Complete the Campaign and it was a pleasure with few nice surprises at the end well done Reflected simulations and Bio! TOMCATS !!! 

[Reflected]

Glad to hear you enjoyed it. Completing it is no small feat!

 

In which mission could you not tank? And what do you mean exactly? You couldn't reach Texaco on the radio? Or you didn't get the clear contact? Or what exactly happened?

 

Thanks!

[Thunder_]

Hi Reflected and once again thank you for the experience !!! An Amazing campaign !! On Hop 8 and 9 I've try to Refuel on Texaco and I've contacted multiple times , on different positions and just kept saying to return to pre contact without extending the hose or giving clear to contact, I've try both radios. It worked fine on Arco. the Threats came up really close before the engagement and I was struggling to get BVR lock up's so my Phoenix just worked in 1 mission. I target the F-16A / Mig 29 and they were so agile that the phoenix was having a difficult time getting the kill.  I could b missing something there. Nevertheless it was a lot fun !! I really enjoy mission 10 and the Briefing. 

[Reflected]

Ah, ok, if he tells youto return pre contact then the radios are fine. Those USAF tankers are much stricter you really have to be in position behind the wingtip to get cleared for contact. Tanking from an S-3 you can be much further out.