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PC upgrade, mainly for DCS


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Hi all,

 

I'm looking to upgrade my PC. Mainly for DCS, but also for other games like Battlefield, Tomb Raider, Metro Exodus etc. Besides gaming, I need the PC to be able to run CAD software like SolidWorks every now and then (modelling and simulation mainly).

 

From my current PC, I will keep the case + fans and GPU (RTX 2070). The rest of components I need to buy new. Seeing the RAM usage of DCS in singleplayer, and especially multiplayer, I'd like to go for 64Gb RAM. Another requirement is that the PC is silent, mainly when idle. For the rest I have no real preferences. In the future I want to upgrade to an RTX 3080 or similar/better and also start using VR (for example the Reverb G2).

 

For now I see these two options:

 

Intel build:

- I9 10850k

- Gigabyte Aorus Z490 Elite AC

- Noctua NH-U12A

- Patriot Memory Viper Steel PVS464G360C8K (64gb kit, 2x32gb)

- MSI MPG A750GF PSU

- Kingston A2000 1TB NVME drive

 

In the Netherlands this build will cost me about €1150

 

AMD build

- Ryzen 7 5800x

- Gigabyte Aorus B550 ELITE V2

- Noctua NH-12A

- Kingston HyperX Predator HX436C17PB3K4/64 (64gb kit, 4x16Gb single rank, 3600MT/s)

- MSI MPG A750GF PSU

- Kingston A2000 1TB NVME drive

 

And the AMD build will cost me about €1250

 

What are your thoughts about this? Any advice?

 

Thanks,

 

Koekemoeroetoe

Intel i9 10850k | Noctua NH-U12A | Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Elite AC | Patriot Viper Steel 64gb @3600MT/s | ASUS TUF RX 7900 XTX OC | Samsung 970 EVO 1TB NVMe | HP Reverb G2

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Hey Koe,

 

Builds look good. If you were gaming only I would suggest the 10600K ($199.99 over here). But Solidworks and related programs scale with threads and cores. DCS and the overwhelming majority of games do not. 

 

Instead of 64GB of RAM consider a 32 GB kit binned at a higher frequency and lower CAS latency. You'll see actual performance benefit out of that. If DCS is using all 32GB something is wrong that will be patched out. 

 

I realize the new AMD chips are all the rage right now. I just picked one up myself. So far there is no evidence of any significant performance benefit over Intel. But the upgrade path on the AM4 socket is kind of in a grey area right now. With the Z490 LGA 1200 you know it supports Rocket Lake which has an IPC boost over today's Skylake uarch according to Intel. 

 

Hope that helps...

 

 

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Hi,

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

I went with the Intel build. Cost me about €130 less than the AMD build and only in synthetic benchmarks you see a minor difference. In games, you're talking 1-2 fps of difference on 150+fps, or 2-4fps on 180+fps. Negligible IMO. Only thing I did change is the NVMe SSD. I had a coupon left for a Dutch shop, through that I could get a Samsung 970 EVO 1TB instead of the Kingston SSD. Should be faster (if you can even notice it) and have a better reliability (the Kingston reviews are a bit mixed, while the 970 EVO's are overwhelmingly positive).

 

SolidWorks uses most if not all cores and threads when rendering or running a simulation. For regular 3D modeling a higher single core clock speed wins, and this is where the Intel has an advantage (all CAD workstations at the company I work at are Intel for a reason). Indeed for gaming, mostly 1 to 4 cores, but there my GPU will be the limiting factor I guess... 

 

Regarding RAM, here in the Netherlands I find availability is really bad at this moment. The 32gb sets that are available either have similar timings, or cost way more (up to twice the price) than what I purchased now. Also, the timings on the Patriot RAM @ 3600MT/s are specified as 18-22-22-42, but according to benchmarks I found, out of the box it will already run 18-20-20-40 instead at 3600MT/s. Timings will drop a bit further when going to 3200MT/s. Besides that, difference in fps is about 1-3% when comparing the same RAM with different speeds and timings, so barely noticeable and definitely not worth the extra €150+ for me 🙂

 

I can imagine that there theoretically is better choice available for RAM, but in practice in the Netherlands not at this moment, at least not for a "normal" price.

 

I hope to receive my components this week, can't wait to build and fly 😄

 

--- EDIT ---

 

And indeed the possibility to upgrade to 11th gen Intel vs. no more upgrade on AM4 also helped me decide to go for Intel. Not to mention the hassle with Ryzen and finding RAM it likes. Apparently it's very picky 🙂


Edited by Koekemoeroetoe

Intel i9 10850k | Noctua NH-U12A | Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Elite AC | Patriot Viper Steel 64gb @3600MT/s | ASUS TUF RX 7900 XTX OC | Samsung 970 EVO 1TB NVMe | HP Reverb G2

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On 2/7/2021 at 3:27 PM, Koekemoeroetoe said:

Hi all,

 

I'm looking to upgrade my PC. Mainly for DCS, but also for other games like Battlefield, Tomb Raider, Metro Exodus etc. Besides gaming, I need the PC to be able to run CAD software like SolidWorks every now and then (modelling and simulation mainly).

 

From my current PC, I will keep the case + fans and GPU (RTX 2070). The rest of components I need to buy new. Seeing the RAM usage of DCS in singleplayer, and especially multiplayer, I'd like to go for 64Gb RAM. Another requirement is that the PC is silent, mainly when idle. For the rest I have no real preferences. In the future I want to upgrade to an RTX 3080 or similar/better and also start using VR (for example the Reverb G2).

 

For now I see these two options:

 

Intel build:

- I9 10850k

- Gigabyte Aorus Z490 Elite AC

- Noctua NH-U12A

- Patriot Memory Viper Steel PVS464G360C8K (64gb kit, 2x32gb)

- MSI MPG A750GF PSU

- Kingston A2000 1TB NVME drive

 

In the Netherlands this build will cost me about €1150

 

AMD build

- Ryzen 7 5800x

- Gigabyte Aorus B550 ELITE V2

- Noctua NH-12A

- Kingston HyperX Predator HX436C17PB3K4/64 (64gb kit, 4x16Gb single rank, 3600MT/s)

- MSI MPG A750GF PSU

- Kingston A2000 1TB NVME drive

 

And the AMD build will cost me about €1250

 

What are your thoughts about this? Any advice?

 

Thanks,

 

Koekemoeroetoe

 

I don't know much about Intel/NVIDIA sets today but for AMD, you might want to have a look at a couple of specs:

 

For the RAM, B.Die works wonder with AMD processors, Corsair and G.SKILL make them too, your kit of choice also show single rank, which helps though timing is not the best at CL 17.

B-Die Finder

 

Unless you really want to stick to 64GB, you might want to have a look at G.SKILL latest kits:

Trident Z Neo DDR4-3800 CL14-16-16-36 32GB (16GBx2)

 

The difference between 32GB and 64 GB might not be as great as you think but for gaming, especially DCS in VR, I'd go for the G.SKILL kit providing I wanted to spend that kind of money, G.Skill advise against mixing two kits even from the same batch for cause of chips compatibility, reason I mention only one 2 X 16GB kit.

 

The RTX 3080 is a great card but I think you'd be better off going for an all AMD or all Intel/NVIDIA system, they all are optimizing their combos and there are benefits in sticking to one system instead of building hybrids.


Edited by Thinder

Win 11Pro. Corsair RM1000X PSU. ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PLUS [WI-FI], AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3D, Sapphire Radeon RX 7900 XTX Nitro+ Vapor-X 24GB GDDR6. 32 GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series (4 x 8GB) RAM Cl14 DDR4 3600. Thrustmaster HOTAS WARTHOG Thrustmaster. TWCS Throttle. PICO 4 256GB.

WARNING: Message from AMD: Windows Automatic Update may have replaced their driver by one of their own. Check your drivers.

M-2000C. Mirage F1. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. F-5E Tiger II. MiG-29 "Fulcrum".  Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes. Fly like a Maineyak.

 

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Hi Thinder,

 

Thanks for your reply. I've ordered the Intel system with 64gb ram. As stated in my previous post, a lot of components are almost not available in the Netherlands, and those that are available are mostly insanely priced. FYI, the ram I ordered now was priced €260, the 32gb G.Skil Trident would cost me €440. Of course it's better, but not €180 better IMHO.

 

That was also one of the reasons not to go for the AMD build, because I just could not find a really good ram kit that suited the CPU for a reasonable price. The G.Skill kit I included in my list was literally the best for that price (€350 in Netherlands), the next best thing would cost €450+. For the Intel build, the ram I chose might still not be ideal, but have checked many benchmarks it might only "cost" me 1 to 5 fps at max when compared to the exact right ram, if one would be able to find any at all at this moment.

 

I went with 64 gigs because it's a bit more future proof and I most probably will use this pc for the next 5+ years AT LEAST, might be even longer (my current pc is 10 years old actually...). I could have gone for 32gb (2x 16), but since almost all ram sets are dual rank (!= dual channel), that means "upgrading" to 4x 16gb at a later point is not a really good option. 2x32 dual rank should perform better than 4x 16gb dual rank according to benchmarks. But again though, we're talking in 1-3 fps differences. 4x single rank is available, but again priced at €400+.

 

Regarding the GPU, I'd like to buy a RTX 3080, but at this moment the MSRP is €719, but actual prices they sell for is at least €1000. So I won't buy one yet. I did take an RTX3080 in account though when searching for a PSU, so I can upgrade whenever they (or something comparable) become available for normal prices, without then also having to upgrade my PSU again (in the first component lists I created I had 550W and 650W PSU's).

Intel i9 10850k | Noctua NH-U12A | Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Elite AC | Patriot Viper Steel 64gb @3600MT/s | ASUS TUF RX 7900 XTX OC | Samsung 970 EVO 1TB NVMe | HP Reverb G2

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1 hour ago, Koekemoeroetoe said:

That was also one of the reasons not to go for the AMD build, because I just could not find a really good ram kit that suited the CPU for a reasonable price. The G.Skill kit I included in my list was literally the best for that price (€350 in Netherlands), the next best thing would cost €450+. For the Intel build, the ram I chose might still not be ideal, but have checked many benchmarks it might only "cost" me 1 to 5 fps at max when compared to the exact right ram, if one would be able to find any at all at this moment.


 

 

OK, I overseen the fact that you could be on a budget, I personally went for a set of G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14Q-32GTZRG.SKILL to replace a Crucial 2 X 16 L6 3200 GB, the gain in 3D Mark Physic is 6.04%, my GPU also gained a bit with +1.33%, combined score too + 1.35%.

 

In short, for an AMD system, B.Die, single Rank and CL14 works best, reason why I didn't focuse on the frequency instead, prefering lower latency to take full advantage of the CPU architecture and gain in latency, in your case, you might have made the best choice considering your budget, amount of RAM needed to do your 3D work and speed.

 

About your choice of GPU, if you go for an Intel then I'd suggest that you make your whole system Intel/NVIDIA, both manufacturers are boosting CPU-to-GPU bus width and I'm sure they have native drivers optimized for their own system, you might loose a little if you build an hybrid, I think your RAM is gonna work just fine with an Intel system although you might want to check compatibility.

 

Another thing I forgot to mention since you play DCS, have you considered using your motherboard M2 slot? I got myself a 500GB Samsung V-NAND 970 EVO Plus SSD and it runs at 3,500 MB/sec and 3,300 MB/sec Read.Write, I checked the speed myself, it's nearly ten times faster than my SATA, once you installed DCS and your page files on it, you'll notice the gain too.

 

 


Edited by Thinder

Win 11Pro. Corsair RM1000X PSU. ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PLUS [WI-FI], AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3D, Sapphire Radeon RX 7900 XTX Nitro+ Vapor-X 24GB GDDR6. 32 GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series (4 x 8GB) RAM Cl14 DDR4 3600. Thrustmaster HOTAS WARTHOG Thrustmaster. TWCS Throttle. PICO 4 256GB.

WARNING: Message from AMD: Windows Automatic Update may have replaced their driver by one of their own. Check your drivers.

M-2000C. Mirage F1. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. F-5E Tiger II. MiG-29 "Fulcrum".  Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes. Fly like a Maineyak.

 

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14 minutes ago, Thinder said:

 

OK, I overseen the fact that you could be on a budget, I personally went for a set of G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14Q-32GTZRG.SKILL to replace a Crucial 2 X 16 L6 3200 GB, the gain in 3D Mark Physic is 6.04%, my GPU also gained a bit with +1.33%, combined score too + 1.35%.

 

In short, for an AMD system, B.Die, single Rank and CL14 works best, reason why I didn't focuse on the frequency instead, prefering lower latency to take full advantage of the CPU architecture and gain in latency, in your case, you might have made the best choice considering your budget, amount of RAM needed to do your 3D work and speed.

 

About your choice of GPU, if you go for an Intel then I'd suggest that you make your whole system Intel/NVIDIA, both manufacturers are boosting CPU-to-GPU bus width and I'm sure they have native drivers optimized for their own system, you might loose a little if you build an hybrid, I think your RAM is gonna work just fine with an Intel system although you might want to check compatibility.

 

Another thing I forgot to mention since you play DCS, have you considered using your motherboard M2 slot? I got myself a 500GB Samsung V-NAND 970 EVO Plus SSD and it runs at 3,500 MB/sec and 3,300 MB/sec Read.Write, I checked the speed myself, it's nearly ten times faster than my SATA, once you installed DCS and your page files on it, you'll notice the gain too.

 

 

 

 

My original budget was €800, so I'm already a bit over-budget you can say 😅 (grand-total I spent now is €1175)

 

The GPU I have now, an RTX 2070, will move to the new system. And I had already ordered a Samsung 970 EVO 1TB M2 SSD as well.

 

So to summarize, my new pc will be:

 

- I9 10850k

- Gigabyte Aorus Z490 Elite AC

- Noctua NH-U12A

- Patriot Memory Viper Steel PVS464G360C8K (64gb kit, 2x32gb)

- MSI MPG A750GF PSU

- Samsung 970 EVO 1TB M2 NVMe drive

- Gigabyte RTX 2070 Windforce

- Nexus Prominent R case

 

I think that should be a well above average pc to do some gaming and CAD work on 🙂


Edited by Koekemoeroetoe
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Intel i9 10850k | Noctua NH-U12A | Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Elite AC | Patriot Viper Steel 64gb @3600MT/s | ASUS TUF RX 7900 XTX OC | Samsung 970 EVO 1TB NVMe | HP Reverb G2

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10 minutes ago, Koekemoeroetoe said:

I think that should be a well above average pc to do some gaming and CAD work on 🙂

 

 

Yeah, I don't work in 3D anymore so my specs are 100% focused on gaming, reason why I chosed the 5600X and not a CPU with more Cores, I will get an AMD RX 6800 to replace my 1080Ti, not really an XT that's why optimization is a priotity to me.

 

Your stals looks good.


Edited by Thinder

Win 11Pro. Corsair RM1000X PSU. ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PLUS [WI-FI], AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3D, Sapphire Radeon RX 7900 XTX Nitro+ Vapor-X 24GB GDDR6. 32 GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series (4 x 8GB) RAM Cl14 DDR4 3600. Thrustmaster HOTAS WARTHOG Thrustmaster. TWCS Throttle. PICO 4 256GB.

WARNING: Message from AMD: Windows Automatic Update may have replaced their driver by one of their own. Check your drivers.

M-2000C. Mirage F1. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. F-5E Tiger II. MiG-29 "Fulcrum".  Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes. Fly like a Maineyak.

 

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Oh yeah, if it weren't for the CAD software I would have most definitely gone for a 5600x or similar Intel i5 as well. Way better bang per buck. And for gaming eventually the GPU is the biggest factor in fps and frametimes, maybe with (flight) simulators as the only exclusion (and badly optimized console ports of course).

  • Like 1

Intel i9 10850k | Noctua NH-U12A | Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Elite AC | Patriot Viper Steel 64gb @3600MT/s | ASUS TUF RX 7900 XTX OC | Samsung 970 EVO 1TB NVMe | HP Reverb G2

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