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[WIP] Weapon G limits and pylons testing, strange results


SlipHavoc

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Both the quickstart guide and Chuck's Guide say some weapons can be damaged by high G loading, but it doesn't say which ones, so I did some testing and found some odd results:

 

No G limit, can be used with A/A master switch:
    • All pods
    • All A/A weapons
    • LD-10 ARMs
    • Any stores (bombs or rockets) on outer wing double pylons only (I'm assuming this is a bug?)

 

6.0 G limit, needs A/G master switch but AG/1 or AG/2 doesn't matter:
    • All drop tanks (centerline 800L and wing 800L and 1100L tanks)
    • GB-6, GB-6-HE, GB-6-SFW
    • C-802AK, CM-802AKG
    • LS-6-500
    • C-701T, C-701IR
    • TYPE-200A
    • Mk 82, Mk 82 Snakeye
    • Mk 84 (bug? since Mk 83 is 5.5 G)

    • BRM-1_90MM rockets

    • UG_90MM rockets

 

5.5 G limit, needs A/G master switch and AG/2 switch:
    • Wing drop tanks
    • GBU-10/12/16 on outer wing single pylons, inner wing pylons, or centerline pylon
    • Mk 83 (bug? since Mk 84 is up to 6.0 G)

 

It looks like the outer wing double pylons give incorrect G resistance to anything mounted on them, and given that the Mk 84 is twice the weight of the Mk 83 it seems strange that it would have a higher G limit.

 

Been having a lot of fun with the plane though, great work overall!

 

Edit: Updated results for drop tanks (they don't seem to be damaged up to 6.0 Gs), and added rockets.


Edited by SlipHavoc
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  • uboats changed the title to [CHK] Weapon G limits and pylons testing, strange results
7 hours ago, Kerbo 416 said:

are you sure about the 701s? I heard some weapons have the system recommending a config other then what should be used.

 

other then that, interesting results 

The 701s require the FCS to be set to AG1.  It is a bit of a pain.  

 

I will double check tonight. 

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  • uboats changed the title to [WIP] Weapon G limits and pylons testing, strange results

I just tested the C-701T and C-701IR again, and they can withstand up to the 6.0 to 6.1 G that the AG/1 mode allows.  That was surprising to me because both the quick start guide and Chuck's say the C-701 is particularly susceptible to high Gs.  (Although I only tested to see if the weapon said FAIL on the MFD, I didn't actually try firing it afterward...)

 

I also tested the BRM rockets (both guided and unguided), and they withstand AG/1 as well, and the 2x LAU-68 pods withstand 8.0 Gs presumably because they're on the outer wing double pylon.  Looks like the fix for that is already in the works.  Thanks!

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3 hours ago, SlipHavoc said:

I just tested the C-701T and C-701IR again, and they can withstand up to the 6.0 to 6.1 G that the AG/1 mode allows.  That was surprising to me because both the quick start guide and Chuck's say the C-701 is particularly susceptible to high Gs.  (Although I only tested to see if the weapon said FAIL on the MFD, I didn't actually try firing it afterward...)

 

I also tested the BRM rockets (both guided and unguided), and they withstand AG/1 as well,

Not sure I have read your post correct, are you saying rockets and missile as supposed to be limited to AG/2?

 

From the manuals they all state the 701 can’t stand high G, I take  that as even tho it’s a light missile due to the seeker it needs a G limiter unlike the SD-10’s I don’t take that to being a 5g max limit being inline with CM-802 and 2,000lbs bombs, The manuals don’t go into what to select for the BRM-1 however I also wouldn’t expect them to be in the same G limit as the heaviest weapons either I’m under the impression something over 6g is the intended limit? From online tutorials and manuals it seems only heavy bombs CM-802, 2,000lbs (don’t know about 1,000lbs but they break real easy) require AG/2 and external fuel tanks. No?

On 2/9/2021 at 11:30 AM, uboats said:

fixed the G limit for dual-load pylon

 

what is the new G limit for this? Should we still be setting AG/1 or now AG/2? Also is it possible to implement a option to be able to jettison the dual rack?


Edited by Blinky.ben
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On 2/8/2021 at 11:35 AM, SlipHavoc said:

Both the quickstart guide and Chuck's Guide say some weapons can be damaged by high G loading, but it doesn't say which ones, so I did some testing and found some odd results:

 

No G limit, can be used with A/A master switch:
    • All pods
    • All A/A weapons
    • LD-10 ARMs
    • Any bombs on outer wing double pylons only (I'm assuming this is a bug?)

 

6.0 G limit, needs A/G master switch but AG/1 or AG/2 doesn't matter:
    • Centerline drop tank
    • GB-6, GB-6-HE, GB-6-SFW
    • C-802AK, CM-802AKG
    • LS-6-500
    • C-701T, C-701IR
    • TYPE-200A
    • Mk 82, Mk 82 Snakeye
    • Mk 84 (bug? since Mk 83 is 5.5 G)

 

5.5 G limit, needs A/G master switch and AG/2 switch:
    • Wing drop tanks
    • GBU-10/12/16 on outer wing single pylons, inner wing pylons, or centerline pylon
    • Mk 83 (bug? since Mk 84 is up to 6.0 G)

 

It looks like the outer wing double pylons give incorrect G resistance to anything mounted on them, and given that the Mk 84 is twice the weight of the Mk 83 it seems strange that it would have a higher G limit.

 

Been having a lot of fun with the plane though, great work overall!

 

Do you remember what size drop tanks you used? I’m now wondering if the 2 sizes have the same G limitation.

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4 hours ago, SlipHavoc said:

I just tested the C-701T and C-701IR again, and they can withstand up to the 6.0 to 6.1 G that the AG/1 mode allows.  That was surprising to me because both the quick start guide and Chuck's say the C-701 is particularly susceptible to high Gs.  (Although I only tested to see if the weapon said FAIL on the MFD, I didn't actually try firing it afterward...)

 

I also tested the BRM rockets (both guided and unguided), and they withstand AG/1 as well, and the 2x LAU-68 pods withstand 8.0 Gs presumably because they're on the outer wing double pylon.  Looks like the fix for that is already in the works.  Thanks!

iirc they survived fine, problem was if you tried to fire them they were jammed but didn't show up in the SMS

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17 hours ago, Blinky.ben said:

Not sure I have read your post correct, are you saying rockets and missile as supposed to be limited to AG/2?

 

From the manuals they all state the 701 can’t stand high G, I take  that as even tho it’s a light missile due to the seeker it needs a G limiter unlike the SD-10’s I don’t take that to being a 5g max limit being inline with CM-802 and 2,000lbs bombs, The manuals don’t go into what to select for the BRM-1 however I also wouldn’t expect them to be in the same G limit as the heaviest weapons either I’m under the impression something over 6g is the intended limit? From online tutorials and manuals it seems only heavy bombs CM-802, 2,000lbs (don’t know about 1,000lbs but they break real easy) require AG/2 and external fuel tanks. No?

what is the new G limit for this? Should we still be setting AG/1 or now AG/2? Also is it possible to implement a option to be able to jettison the dual rack?

 

 

I don't know what the limits for all the weapons are supposed to be, as that is not documented anywhere I could find.  What I'm posting is what I've found the limits to actually be in the game.  Chuck's Guide specifically says the C-701T has a 5.5 G limit (page 114 and page 347), which is incorrect as far as I can tell, and the Quick Start guide specifically mentions that the C-701 is sensitive to high Gs, so I figured it would only say that if they could be damaged by the higher of the two AG switch settings, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

At least as currently implemented in the game, it is definitely not the case that only the heaviest weapons need AG/2.  To the contrary, most weapons, including the heavies, seem to work fine with AG/1, and the ones that don't are a little surprising, like the Mk 83, and all the GBU series.  That's why I did these tests, to figure out what switch settings were actually needed.

 

It looks like the dual pylon issue was just a bug; as to the actual limits that the weapons should have, I don't know, but online tutorials and manuals are no match for empirical testing. 🙂

 

 

17 hours ago, Blinky.ben said:

Do you remember what size drop tanks you used? I’m now wondering if the 2 sizes have the same G limitation.

 

Now that you mention it, I'm not sure I ever actually tested the drop tanks...  Chuck's Guide says carrying any drop tanks requires the AG master switch, and wing tanks specifically require AG/2, but I should probably test that just to make sure.  I'll try to do that this afternoon and post another update.

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20 hours ago, Blinky.ben said:

Do you remember what size drop tanks you used? I’m now wondering if the 2 sizes have the same G limitation.

OK, I tested the fuel tanks and found that all the fuel tanks (wing and centerline, 800L and 1100L) can withstand 6.0 Gs, and so don't seem to need the AG/2 switch.

 

17 hours ago, Kerbo 416 said:

iirc they survived fine, problem was if you tried to fire them they were jammed but didn't show up in the SMS

And I tried the C-701T and C-701IR (one of each), pulling 6.0 Gs for about 30 seconds, then firing each one, and they both locked on, fired, and hit their targets.

 

Editing my original post above to show the current results.

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1 hour ago, SlipHavoc said:

OK, I tested the fuel tanks and found that all the fuel tanks (wing and centerline, 800L and 1100L) can withstand 6.0 Gs, and so don't seem to need the AG/2 switch.

 

And I tried the C-701T and C-701IR (one of each), pulling 6.0 Gs for about 30 seconds, then firing each one, and they both locked on, fired, and hit their targets.

 

Editing my original post above to show the current results.

Just thinking out loud here but when it comes to G limiting weapons I imagine that they wouldn’t limit the G on the very limit right? Cause they would be considering wear and tear also not just breaking point. So I would imagine there to be a buffer above what the limit of the FCS and a duration of time at the higher G limit too e.g 9g being a very quick time to break over 6.5-7g being a longer time frame before issues start to unfold.

 

I tried this myself and found both fuel tanks on the wing pylons break as soon as you get to 6.3g no matter the size, but would 300lbs make such a difference? But at 6g you can hold that all day long. The MK83 breaks as soon as you hit 5.5g and the MK84 breaks just over 6g.

 

however even tho they need some tweaking with the info we have I still don’t believe they should break at the very limit either due to what I stated earlier. But to stop people abusing the system perhaps Deka could implement the G limit up to just before what the next switch is limited to. For example if the 1100lbs fuel tank has a limit of 5g then maybe program them to break at the 5.5-5.8 limit which will still force the user to select AG/2 but break if they go to the limits in AG/1, this will avoid those moments where you will pull hard and the FCS let’s you go over the limiter for that brief moment where in real life the stores would handle the higher G for the small duration of time.

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  • 1 year later...

I just found this thread. I am having the same problem: my weapons go red in the stores management system after making what I feel are not abnormal turns. Is this normal? It seems to be a bug. I see players turning all kinds of ways in other ways, and their weapons don't fail. This is very strange, and ruins the fun. Please fix.

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18 hours ago, sublimeswell said:

I just found this thread. I am having the same problem: my weapons go red in the stores management system after making what I feel are not abnormal turns. Is this normal? It seems to be a bug. I see players turning all kinds of ways in other ways, and their weapons don't fail. This is very strange, and ruins the fun. Please fix.

Which other players? Remember that the JF-17 is one of the better modelled aircraft, and stores limits are not on every plane. 

I. E. The 14, 16, & 18 can be flown to their max with a full load of weapons and fuel, with no adverse effects; because store limits aren't in the game for them. 

Hopefully that disparity is fixed by adding stores over-g to the others, but that's up to the Devs of each plane. 

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