SSLR - is it bugged, or will it always incur a 50% performance hit?

[GunSlingerAUS]

We've had SSLR for quite a while now, but for me it's unusable - I play at 4k resolution, with everything maxed except draw distance and SSAA. I've got an RTX 3090 overclocked by 10%, with a 9700K processor at 5GHz, 32GB RAM, etc - very, very high spec PC.

 

Sitting in the Tomcat on the SC deck, I get around 70-80fps with SSLR disabled. With SSLR enabled it drops to around 45-50fps. That's an absolutely incredible performance hit, for a very minimal increase in perceived graphics quality.

 

My question is whether SSLR is bugged? If it's not, does this mean we'll require GPUs around double the speed of the RTX 3090 to deliver SSLR at 60fps at 4K resolution? Or is there a way I can tweak a setting to enable SSLR with a smaller performance hit?

[RealDCSpilot]

My hope is, 2.7 is a big enough engine overhaul that will get this covered.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Alec Delorean

[Worrazen]

Might have some improvements here, but the Vulkan & Multi-threading improvements that would help FPS overall I think are planned for Q3 2021 so not 2.7 I would assume.

[Gierasimov]

3 hours ago, Alec Delorean said:

My hope is, 2.7 is a big enough engine overhaul that will get this covered.

 

With this hope, you are in for disappointment. "big enough engine overhaul" is not realistic expectation for DCS 2.7. 

[Northstar98]

Yeah, that sounds more DCS 3.0, 2.7 is mainly facilitating the new clouds it seems.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Pretty sure we'll see a few nice thus-far unannounced stuff coming with 2.7, since as far as I understand, the new clouds were supposed to be the main selling point of DCS 2.6, which as we all know is skipped altogether.

[Lurker]

2 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Pretty sure we'll see a few nice thus-far unannounced stuff coming with 2.7, since as far as I understand, the new clouds were supposed to be the main selling point of DCS 2.6, which as we all know is skipped altogether.

 

I hope you are right about that. 

[Expert]

23 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Pretty sure we'll see a few nice thus-far unannounced stuff coming with 2.7, since as far as I understand, the new clouds were supposed to be the main selling point of DCS 2.6, which as we all know is skipped altogether.

If no particular effects were added to the presentation video we saw (the one with the A-6), I think we should expect some change in lighting.

[Canada_Moose]

Well, there has to be some perf improvements in 2.7 or else those pretty clouds are going to eat FPS and leave a lot of people disappointed. Experiences with FSX, P3D etc have shown that clouds can be a real perf killer.

 

I hope its not a case of 'bolting on more' to an already stressed graphics engine.

[Northstar98]

They've so far said that the clouds have minimal impact over the current ones, but we'll only be able to verify that once 2.7 actually hits.

[Lurker]

4 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

They've so far said that the clouds have minimal impact over the current ones, but we'll only be able to verify that once 2.7 actually hits.

 

Good thing I bought the 3090RTX

 

Seriously though, if they tank my performance with my current setup, I will be seriously p$%&&/& off. I mean sure a drop of a few average or max fps on average I'm not gonna mind, but if it's really noticeable on the most powerful graphics card there is, then that would be a serious cause for concern. 

[Northstar98]

Just now, Lurker said:

 

Good thing I bought the 3090RTX

 

Lucky sod! 

 

Just now, Lurker said:

Seriously though, if they tank my performance with my current setup, I will be seriously p$%&&/& off. I mean sure a drop of a few average or max fps on average I'm not gonna mind, but if it's really noticeable on the most powerful graphics card there is, then that would be a serious cause for concern. 

 

Yeah, the main thing though is going to be the CPU, obviously for me my main bottleneck is probably my GPU - which is pegged at 100% every time I fire up DCS on even the clearest of days.

 

Clouds however should be more on the GPU side, but DCS' engine is kinda losing its fitness for purpose.

[silverdevil]

my squadron has discussed this in our internal forum. i know the development world and the sometimes secret nature of flow of info. especially in these forums, not everyone is understanding about the various issues with DCS. these folks are not always thoughtful about their posts about the issues. i suggested that perhaps many of these public issues of performance are being rectified (in secret) to include in the update 2.7. just a guess. at least there is some hope. 

[Lange_666]

4 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

They've so far said that the clouds have minimal impact over the current ones.

 

A minimal impact is still an impact.

[Northstar98]

2 minutes ago, Lange_666 said:

 

A minimal impact is still an impact.

 

Yes, but minimal doesn't imply it'll be significant - again, the only way we'll know for certain is what it's like when it gets hit.

[GunSlingerAUS]

On 2/11/2021 at 7:30 PM, Worrazen said:

Might have some improvements here, but the Vulkan & Multi-threading improvements that would help FPS overall I think are planned for Q3 2021 so not 2.7 I would assume.

 

From my limited knowledge, SSLR is not a CPU thing - it's all shaders, which means Vulkan will make absolutely zero performance difference to this feature. My question remains - is SSLR bugged or will it require a doubling of the performance offered by an RTX 3090 to make this a usable feature? By usable, I think a solid 60fps is a good benchmark to hit for DCS in 2D. Or is there room for this feature to be optimised to the point where it only incurs a small performance hit instead of the 50% it currently saps?

[Glide]

SSLR is great without any AA, but as soon as you add MSAA or SSAA, SSLR becomes a performance hog.  I don't use any AA enabled while running at 4k, so I have SSLR enabled.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

On 2/12/2021 at 10:43 AM, Lurker said:

Seriously though, if they tank my performance with my current setup, I will be seriously p$%&&/& off.

I'd advise some patience in that regard. If they turn out to seriously affect performance once we have the new graphics engine later this year (I imagine it will need some time to get properly polished as well after initial release), then yes we have every right to be upset.

Even snow seriously affects perforance at the moment I find, even on a current generation system, and Vulkan should help with that hopefully.

[Lurker]

12 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

I'd advise some patience in that regard. If they turn out to seriously affect performance once we have the new graphics engine later this year (I imagine it will need some time to get properly polished as well after initial release), then yes we have every right to be upset.

Even snow seriously affects perforance at the moment I find, even on a current generation system, and Vulkan should help with that hopefully.

 

There is Snow in this game? I've never seen snowfall in DCS World. I've seen the winter textures, and I quite like them but snowfall? Nope. I guess most mission makers avoid it for precisely this reason. 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Yeah I remember playing a free F/A-18C campaign a while ago, where you operate a Spanish Hornet, and one of the missions had a serious snowstorm ("Snowstorm" is one of the presets available in the Mission Editor) and required VID of a bogey, including communicating the tail number over the radio. I was still on my old system back then, with a 1080Ti and Rift CV1. Image the horror of trying to get close to an eratically flying bogey in a snowstorm at 12 fps, while at the same time trying to read the tail number using a CV1 (screendoor effect galore). Good times

[Ozmandi]

I've been in the process of analyzing and benchmarking my system so I would personally know what 'does' and 'does not' affect my FPS.

I decided to do this because many of the DCS guides related to FPS performance contradict each other and even contradict what's in the manual.

A quick look at my data and I've found that SSLR doesn't affect my FPS as much as SSAA does.  I've been testing different settings individually and haven't gotten to SSLR yet but thought I'd run a quick test to see if I have the same performance hit as you do.

Test = F-18 Mission - Supercarrier Deck Population Template (only changed SSLR setting)

SSLR ON  = FPS is   93

SSLR OFF = FPS is 103

SSLR drops my FPS by 10  

 

That's nothing compared to what SSAA does.

These are from a test I did this past weekend and are averages from 5 different plane\missions.

NVIDIA Control Panel all settings on DEFAULT

DCS Settings on HIGH (SSLR is ON)

- each number\color is a separate test

null

x = from the DCS 2020 manual

 

As you can see, SSAA 2x has the biggest hit on FPS; it's using 82% of my GPU to generate 46 FPS.

While MSAA 4x uses 70% of my GPU to generate 67 FPS.

Again, these are averages and SSLR is ON.

 

My set-up: 27" curved 144Hz @ 2560 x 1440 | AMD 5800X | NVIDIA 3080 | 64GB Corsair RAM | 1TB M.2 SSD

 

I know your hardware is different than mine but from my test SSLR doesn't hammer my FPS as hard as it does yours. 

But it could also be that extra 28" you have! 

[Hiob]

It‘s not so easy because many settings have interdependencies or effect on each other. sslr in combination with AA will tank your fps more than without. E.g. my sweetspot currently is msaa 2x, ssaa 1,5x and sslr off (anisotropic filtering 8x and (!) ground shadows flat(!).

That is on an 4K gsync display. I can‘t stand the flickering of runway markings without any AA e.g.

Sure, no AA on 4k is lot less annoying than on HD but still gives a lot of benefit.

One of the most important things for me - especially in helicopter flying is ground shadows flat. On default, the flickering and pop in effect is annoying af.

 

[dresoccer4]

Did anyone notice a difference with SSLR on latest 2.7?

[GunSlingerAUS]

On 2/19/2021 at 4:22 PM, Ozmandi said:

I've been in the process of analyzing and benchmarking my system so I would personally know what 'does' and 'does not' affect my FPS.

I decided to do this because many of the DCS guides related to FPS performance contradict each other and even contradict what's in the manual.

A quick look at my data and I've found that SSLR doesn't affect my FPS as much as SSAA does.  I've been testing different settings individually and haven't gotten to SSLR yet but thought I'd run a quick test to see if I have the same performance hit as you do.

Test = F-18 Mission - Supercarrier Deck Population Template (only changed SSLR setting)

SSLR ON  = FPS is   93

SSLR OFF = FPS is 103

SSLR drops my FPS by 10  

 

That's nothing compared to what SSAA does.

These are from a test I did this past weekend and are averages from 5 different plane\missions.

NVIDIA Control Panel all settings on DEFAULT

DCS Settings on HIGH (SSLR is ON)

- each number\color is a separate test

null

x = from the DCS 2020 manual

 

As you can see, SSAA 2x has the biggest hit on FPS; it's using 82% of my GPU to generate 46 FPS.

While MSAA 4x uses 70% of my GPU to generate 67 FPS.

Again, these are averages and SSLR is ON.

 

My set-up: 27" curved 144Hz @ 2560 x 1440 | AMD 5800X | NVIDIA 3080 | 64GB Corsair RAM | 1TB M.2 SSD

 

I know your hardware is different than mine but from my test SSLR doesn't hammer my FPS as hard as it does yours. 

But it could also be that extra 28" you have! 

 

 

Apologies for not replying sooner to your message - thanks for taking the time to benchmark the impact SSLR has on your system. Also, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the DCS community-think tank is full of absolutely contradictory information when it comes to performance tweaking... don't even get me started on the VR guides 

 

Your results are really interesting - it would appear that SSLR and SSAA are either/or - enabling both incurs a severe performance hit. I'll see how it impacts my setup... once my new RTX 3090 arrives, as my first one died on me last week. I also wonder if the Tomcat cockpit in particular is severely taxing for SSLR due to the high detail PBR textures? 

[silverdevil]

in my case disk cost for tomcat is double that of my next closest module (A-10C II). so it goes to reason.