Jump to content

SUPER hornet!?


Huilque151

Recommended Posts

You contradict yourself. How do you sell it? Answer is very, very simple - just read your first sentence again
Of course you're right that it's not some upgrade - it's the whole new module but work on the core has nothing to do with it.
It's a different plane, yes the avionics is very similar...also with the fcs they would not start from scratch, but yet different 3d model and different flight model.
Also it would be sold at full price probably...with maybe a discount for Charlie hornet and super carrier owners but those are just guesses.
It is different from a10c/a10c II as that is just some addition and a different 3d model.
Probably if they had already finished the legacy Hornet they could have thought of the echo.
But I don't think a lot of people would take it well if they announced a super bug without finishing and fixing all legacy Hornet stuff

Inviato dal mio Pixel 6 utilizzando Tapatalk

🖥️ R7-5800X3D 64GB RTX-4090 LG-38GN950  🥽 Meta Quest 3  🕹️ VPForce Rhino FFB, Virpil F-14 (VFX) Grip, F-15EX Throttle, MFG Crosswinds v3, Razer Tartarus V2 💺SpeedMaster Flight Seat, JetSeat

CVW-17_Profile_Background_VF-103.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An E/F module would offer the best to DCS. I'd particularly love to see it developed by HB or RB, but both have their hands full right now. Also there may be obstacles to get a contract to develop that particular airframe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Tank50us said:

A lot of people want the Super Bug, trust me. It would be very nice to have a USN 4.5gen aircraft, but there's the rub: How do you sell it? Answer is very, very simple. You won't be able to easily. Why? Well, let's go through the list:

  1. In terms of weapons, the only thing it can carry that the legacy can't, is the AIM120D. It might be able to carry some other toys as well, but I'm not entirely sure off hand.
  2. While the Super Hornet has longer legs, and better engines, it's thrust/weight ratio is actually worse than the Legacy (0.93 vs 0.96)
  3. You get two extra stores... that are rated for missiles, or small (and I mean less than 500lbs) bombs only.
  4. Systems wise, you're looking at a Hornet 2.0.

Basically, for ED to really sell this thing to current Hornet drivers, they'd have to do it the same way they did the A-10CII. As an expansion to the existing F/A18C Module, rather than a full stand alone product. For best results, I'd argue that they'd be better off with the F version, as it offers multi-crew to the mix, and gives more reason for people to want the upgrade. So, the upgrade package would offer:

You forgot the reduced RCS which could be very interesting. In any case, the SH should sell itself. More weapons and fuel is good enough. The fact that it looks different is probably enough for some people. You don't need a better TWR to bomb convoys, and I can feel the benefits of two extra stations from flying the Hornet with external tanks.

For people concerned over historical accuracy, you can't replace the E/F with C or D Hornets. I really want at least SH AI for this reason. An E Hornet would also be nice to have in my module collection.

  • Like 2

Awaiting: DCS F-15C

Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

me.. all in my little quiet space here in my room wanting nothing more and would simply be overly thrilled and celebrating the completion of the ED DCS-F-16CM Block 50 and the DCS F/A-18C OFP 13C + Super Carrier and/with ED Dynamic Campaign and World Globe. Oh what a celebration it will be................

Celebration-Celebrate-Friday-Weekend-Dan

 

DCS FORUM SIG.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/29/2022 at 5:47 PM, Tank50us said:

A lot of people want the Super Bug, trust me. It would be very nice to have a USN 4.5gen aircraft, but there's the rub: How do you sell it? Answer is very, very simple. You won't be able to easily. Why? Well, let's go through the list:

  1. In terms of weapons, the only thing it can carry that the legacy can't, is the AIM120D. It might be able to carry some other toys as well, but I'm not entirely sure off hand.
  2. While the Super Hornet has longer legs, and better engines, it's thrust/weight ratio is actually worse than the Legacy (0.93 vs 0.96)
  3. You get two extra stores... that are rated for missiles, or small (and I mean less than 500lbs) bombs only.
  4. Systems wise, you're looking at a Hornet 2.0.

Basically, for ED to really sell this thing to current Hornet drivers, they'd have to do it the same way they did the A-10CII. As an expansion to the existing F/A18C Module, rather than a full stand alone product. For best results, I'd argue that they'd be better off with the F version, as it offers multi-crew to the mix, and gives more reason for people to want the upgrade. So, the upgrade package would offer:

  1. Multi-crew airframe
  2. two extra hardpoints for weapons
  3. improved engines
  4. increased range without bags
  5. increased MTO
  6. A better ACLS
  7. And other small features

But to pull this off, ED would need to make:

  1. A new model
  2. A new flight and damage model
  3. A new engine performance model (because of the new engines)
  4. Add a new radar to the mix
  5. An AI for the back seat to handle the Fs functions in the back

That's almost a full module just in those items alone, and I don't think it'd be fair of us to ask they do the work required to make a full module, and only charge the upgrade cost. Yes, they can save work because the two share many systems... but there's still quite a bit of work to complete before they could even release it.

So... short of the long, do I want the Super Bug? Yes. Do I think it's practical for ED to make it right now? Not really. Do I think it'll come to DCS? Eventually.

To be fair, there are a lot of people starting threads or reopening existing ones begging for a Super Hornet, and while I myself want one, I know it's not likely in the cards given that there's actually more important things being worked on right now (like Vulkan)


Assuming ED can get enough data to do a Block I Lot 25 w/o AESA Radar Circa 2007
As Anything Lot 21->24 is essentially the same cockpit dropped into the Super Hornet Airframe.
Lot 25 is Lot 24 with Updated Displays, Internal Memory, Updated HOL OFP and Software Provisions for AESA/ACS and Growler Upgrades.


Here Goes:
1A. Incorrect, Block I Lot 25 Did not have AIM-120D Capability, AIM-120C7 Completed Testing in 2007, so *Maybe* C-7, not to mention a ALE-55, and Buddy Refueling, and not to further Mention Capability to Carry 2 More AIM-7, AIM-9, AIM-120, 2 More AGM-65, Double GBU24 Capacity, 2 More HARM, 33% more GBU 10/12/14, or an additional 960 Gallons of fuel.

1B. Incorrect, E/F Airframes only have a drag dis-advantage in transonic areas .85 to 1.2, Sub and Super Drag values are less, and negligible vs a Legacy with Big Engines.
The Canted Pylons do not affect the drag, as they are angled with the flow of air, Clean C/D can beat a Clean E/F in transonic acceleration with no pylons. The Larger Airframe is the only reason for Drag increase, More Air hitting a bigger airframe.
Sub-sonic the E/F will take off in significantly less runway, accelerate faster, climb faster, than a Legacy
Turn Radius is Roughly the same, however, C/D has Limits on Asymmetrical loads that the E/F Does not, and the E/F has virtually no limits on Symmetrical Loads.
in High AoA, the E/F beats the C/D in Roll rate and Pitch Authority.
E/F is better than C/D in everything except Acceleration from Mach .85 to 1.2., and a E/F will obliterate a C/D w/ Big Engines from 0 to .85, and the accerlation difference from .8 to 1.25 isnt great enough to be a great concern, E/F will also beat an C/D to 1.5 from 1.25, and stall again at 1.5 to 1.6, and the C/D can go to 1.84, while E/F tops out at 1.66ish.
Not to mention Reduced RCS and Survivability

1C. Correct, as Pointed out in 1A. 2 More Missiles of all types is an advantage.

1D. Assuming it's Lot 20-25, it's not even Hornet 2.0 Systems wise, it's Hornet 1.11 *Again, Systems Wise, as 1B. Points out, E/F has an advantage in every other dept. essentially

1B. Neutral, I can Live with E or F as a Hornet Package Upgrade option. WSO Station would be nice, but everything the WSO Does can be done by a Pilot as well.
2B. Again, those 2 extra hardpoints and extra ordinance are a big advantage.
3B. Again, Better Take off, Climb and Acceleration
4-7B, Yup

1C. Correct, a New Model and Visual Damage Model
2C. Correct, A New Aerodynamic Flight Model, and Flight Control System, as well as new Damage and Failures.
3C. Correct, New Engine Model
4C. APG-73 Is already modelled in our Lot 20 Hornet. Assuming Anything Lot 20->24, the Radar and a good majority of the systems are already modelled. Lot 25 would need the integration of HOL-OFPs and new Displays.
5C. Core functions of AI systems interaction are already in DCS.

In Conclusion:
The -C Lot 20 isn't even finished yet, nor is the Super Carrier.
I'd rather everything in development that can be used with an Potential E/F be fully developed before being ported to the E/F,
Most of the work would be Graphical and Flight Model Development,

As for Vulkan and Multi-threading of the core, the team that's assigned that task is not the same team that develops aircraft modules.

As for Upgrade vs Full Price: I'd pay full price, even if most of the Systems can be ported over, it's not the same aircraft, there's systems that have been ported from other aircraft in the DCS Lineup already, and they wouldn't even be direct ports, as the aircraft core code would be different, so it would require significant work, the only thing that would be discounted is overall development time vs the legacy.


Edited by SkateZilla
  • Like 11
  • Thanks 1

Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2),

ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9)

3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi. Just passed by this thread to mention, as a Hornet module owner, that I would love to buy the Super Hornet module, but likely only if it was kind of an upgrade module, or as someone mentioned, with a discount or something for Hornet/Supercarrier owners. I would likely not purchase it if it was at full price.

I think many of Hornet owners would probably think like me, but then it is for ED to determine if it's worth. Again, as mentioned before, if it needs to be built from scratch, it might not be, but if they can work on the existing frame, it might. And I assume the bugs the Hornet currently has could likely be fixed/worked on for both frames at the same time.

Also, probably not necessary to say it, but if this ever becomes a reality, I think I'd still like to be able to use either of the two, not just replace one with the other.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everyone's wish the superbug....

  • Like 2

🖥️ R7-5800X3D 64GB RTX-4090 LG-38GN950  🥽 Meta Quest 3  🕹️ VPForce Rhino FFB, Virpil F-14 (VFX) Grip, F-15EX Throttle, MFG Crosswinds v3, Razer Tartarus V2 💺SpeedMaster Flight Seat, JetSeat

CVW-17_Profile_Background_VF-103.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do have a few questions..

Which aircraft are the most quoted from the community? Wherever i go in that community, i see people asking for the super hornet. Isnt safe to say the super hornet is the most claimed module? After that, what is the most difficulty to make that f18F? I mean, why not to add that into eagle dynamics plans if everyone wanted that more than anything? It is because there is so many classified infos that it make it impossible to do? Or maybe becase something else?

Then, there is a lot of similarities between C and F versions.. Cockpit is almost the same. It would take high effort to develop that module? It could reuse a few things from c version, right? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’d absolutely buy an E/F Rhino. Let’s go

  • Like 2

2080Ti FTW3 Ultra - G.Skill RJ 32GB (16x2) DDR4 3200 - Ryzen 2700X 4.2Ghz OC - Corsair H100i Pro - Samsung 970 EVO M.2 2TB - TMW HOTAS w Delta Sim - F/A-18C grip - 10cm Sahaj - TrackIR 5 Pro - Rift CV1 - MFG CWind - BuddyFox UFC - DSD RK II - Cougar MFDs w/ LCDs - Foxx Mounts - VPC MongoosT-50CM base

 

- Maps: NTTR, Persian Gulf, Normandy

- Modules: FC3, F-14A/B, F/A-18C, AV-8B, A-10C, F-16C, F-86, KA-50, P-51D, WWII assets, and [insert campaign name]

Dreaming of the F-15E / F-14D / Rhino

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, vnscolen said:

I do have a few questions..

Which aircraft are the most quoted from the community? Wherever i go in that community, i see people asking for the super hornet. Isnt safe to say the super hornet is the most claimed module? After that, what is the most difficulty to make that f18F? I mean, why not to add that into eagle dynamics plans if everyone wanted that more than anything? It is because there is so many classified infos that it make it impossible to do? Or maybe becase something else?

Then, there is a lot of similarities between C and F versions.. Cockpit is almost the same. It would take high effort to develop that module? It could reuse a few things from c version, right? 

 

I wouldn't take forum as reference to what people want, there are lots of people here that spam cold war but most used aircraft in multiplayer servers are F-16 and F-18, so modern era. I think most sold too but I don't have that info.

My opinion is that it is better to make some other modern aircraft than Rhino, I know it is not exactly the same as Hornet but it essentially is the Hornet, carrier capable US aircraft. We have lots of US aircraft around.

I'd rather see them focus on EU (Rafale, Gripen, Eurofighter is coming), Russian (MiG or Sukhoi), Chinese etc... given they can get info off course. There was a petition for Rafale, some people did it, which few thousands signed, post was somewhere on the forums, petition was elsewhere. So there are lots of people that don't think Rhino is the plane we should have.

Don't get me wrong I'd love to see it, I love modern jets, but I think we could have much more use from other air frames, European, Russian, Chinese etc...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, vnscolen said:

I do have a few questions..

Which aircraft are the most quoted from the community? Wherever i go in that community, i see people asking for the super hornet. Isnt safe to say the super hornet is the most claimed module? 

Well.. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade here and yes, it seems to be a popular request.. but it's mostly a small group of the same people reacting to these Superbug threads. Every month orso, one of the (new) forum members is creating a new "Superhornet request thread" (because that's easier than reacting to one of the existing threads) and it's mostly the same group of people reacting and keeping those new threads alive and constantly bumped.

Again, not my intention to be negative about anyone here, I might even consider buying the Superbug myself if it were to become available at some point, I just don't think you can use all these threads to determine if this is the most desired module.

  • Like 2

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Superhornet will sell because of Top Gun 2. Nothing more is needed, Tom Cruise already did most of the marketing legwork for this module. 🙂 Yes, it'd be kind of like the old Hornet, but IMO, it's different enough. It'd be easy to learn for legacy Hornet jocks, wouldn't require new peripherals (since Winwing F-18 kit already has the 4-direction dispense switch) and would provide somewhat improved performance. Seems like an instant buy to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/15/2022 at 6:02 PM, vnscolen said:

I do have a few questions..

Which aircraft are the most quoted from the community? Wherever i go in that community, i see people asking for the super hornet. Isnt safe to say the super hornet is the most claimed module? After that, what is the most difficulty to make that f18F? I mean, why not to add that into eagle dynamics plans if everyone wanted that more than anything? It is because there is so many classified infos that it make it impossible to do? Or maybe becase something else?

Then, there is a lot of similarities between C and F versions.. Cockpit is almost the same. It would take high effort to develop that module? It could reuse a few things from c version, right? 

 

 

Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2),

ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9)

3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/20/2021 at 9:39 PM, SkateZilla said:

There is no Exclusive Rights Contracts w/ Boeing for any of the Super Hornet variants

I believe he was referring to Vertical Reality Simulations F/A-18 for FSX/P3D, and honestly wish they would move over to DCS. Aint gonna happen though...

Intel 13900k @ 5.8ghz | 64gb GSkill Trident Z | MSI z790 Meg ACE| Zotac RTX4090 | Asus 1000w psu | Slaw RX Viper 2 pedals | VKB Gunfighter Mk3 MCE Ultimate + STECS/ Virpil MongoosT50+ MongoosT50CM | K-51 Collective + custom AH64D TEDAC | HP Reverb G2 | Windows 11 Pro | |Samsung Odyssey G9 | Next Level Racing Flight Seat Pro

The Boeing MQ-25A Sting Ray = Dirt Devil with wings
 My wallpaper and skins

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

I believe he was referring to Vertical Reality Simulations F/A-18 for FSX/P3D, and honestly wish they would move over to DCS. Aint gonna happen though...

And I say Again, there is no such Exclusive Rights Contract with Boeing, not for VRS, not for Microsoft, anyone or any developer of any games or simulations.


Edited by SkateZilla

Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2),

ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9)

3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

And I say Again, there is no such Exclusive Rights Contract with Boeing, not for VRS, not for Microsoft, anyone or any developer of any games or simulations.

 

So... what ultimately stops any third-party devs from making a Super Hornet?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They have their hands full with other modules, presumably? Also, there are probably things going on that we don't hear about, with licensing. Tornado, for example, was rumored some time ago to be embroiled in a some sort of licensing tug of war between two devs. I recall another case when someone wanted to make a popular aircraft and was told by ED that it is "not available at the moment". I don't believe that after seeing Top Gun 2, various 3rd party people didn't at least look into the licensing situation. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lot going on behind the scenes at corporate/legal e-mail pace (so, slower than a Warthog with flaps jammed full down).

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tank50us said:

So... what ultimately stops any third-party devs from making a Super Hornet?

Depending on Block/Lot:
Available Data,
Time/Money,
Access to an Airframe to Laser Scan etc.


Edited by SkateZilla

Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2),

ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9)

3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

Depending on Block/Lot:
Available Data,
Time/Money,
Access to an Airframe to Laser Scan etc.

Alright, so, for a 3rd party deciding to do this, time wouldn't be that much of a factor, and money could be raised through crowd funding (If ED allows that)....

That being said, what would be the latest Block/Lot that could be done with minimal issues? If it were up to me, I'd be shooting for the 2003-2005 era (same as the RB F-15E). Could a mid-2000s Super Hornet be accessed for laser scanning? And, realistically speaking, is laser scanning absolutely necessary for the making of a module?


Edited by Tank50us
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You dont necessarily need a laser scan, just a set of good blue prints that can show a decent 3D interpretation of cutaway sections.

Intel 13900k @ 5.8ghz | 64gb GSkill Trident Z | MSI z790 Meg ACE| Zotac RTX4090 | Asus 1000w psu | Slaw RX Viper 2 pedals | VKB Gunfighter Mk3 MCE Ultimate + STECS/ Virpil MongoosT50+ MongoosT50CM | K-51 Collective + custom AH64D TEDAC | HP Reverb G2 | Windows 11 Pro | |Samsung Odyssey G9 | Next Level Racing Flight Seat Pro

The Boeing MQ-25A Sting Ray = Dirt Devil with wings
 My wallpaper and skins

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...