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SUPER hornet!?


Huilque151

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4 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

You dont necessarily need a laser scan, just a set of good blue prints that can show a decent 3D interpretation of cutaway sections.

Indeed, access to the airframe and/or cockpit would make it a lot more attractive because the 3D scanning can be imported into the 3D visual modelling software to speed up the process, taking less time and cost, and probably being more accurate than even what the blueprints would have explained.

 

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7 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

They have their hands full with other modules, presumably? Also, there are probably things going on that we don't hear about, with licensing. Tornado, for example, was rumored some time ago to be embroiled in a some sort of licensing tug of war between two devs. I recall another case when someone wanted to make a popular aircraft and was told by ED that it is "not available at the moment". I don't believe that after seeing Top Gun 2, various 3rd party people didn't at least look into the licensing situation. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lot going on behind the scenes at corporate/legal e-mail pace (so, slower than a Warthog with flaps jammed full down).

Thanks for bringing up this important point that is often not mentioned because a lot of people are not fully aware of all that is required to bring a full fidelity module to fruition.

I will also add that most of the modules that have been developed have been because all of the stars have lined up for it to get the green light. Rather than how popular it would be.

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1 hour ago, Worrazen said:

Indeed, access to the airframe and/or cockpit would make it a lot more attractive because the 3D scanning can be imported into the 3D visual modelling software to speed up the process, taking less time and cost, and probably being more accurate than even what the blueprints would have explained.

 

 

6 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

You dont necessarily need a laser scan, just a set of good blue prints that can show a decent 3D interpretation of cutaway sections.

 

From my experience so far, laser scanning tends to deliver more accurate results, and has a quicker turn over.

Having access to the airframe allows the team to collect high resolution photos of sections not normally photographed by public (internal bays, service doors, etc etc)

 

6 hours ago, Tank50us said:

Alright, so, for a 3rd party deciding to do this, time wouldn't be that much of a factor, and money could be raised through crowd funding (If ED allows that)....

That being said, what would be the latest Block/Lot that could be done with minimal issues? If it were up to me, I'd be shooting for the 2003-2005 era (same as the RB F-15E). Could a mid-2000s Super Hornet be accessed for laser scanning? And, realistically speaking, is laser scanning absolutely necessary for the making of a module?

 

 

The issue with Crowd Funding, is this community has been burnt by it too many times, pretty sure this community would likely never support a crowd funded module project or team again, So said "3rd Party" would have to secure their own Financial support elsewhere.

Block I - Lot 24 Would be the latest Super Hornet, the systems are Pre HoL, and Pre AESA, so the OFP would be closer to that of the Lot 20 Hornet we have now,
Lot 21 was EoL for Legacy and Start of LRIP of E/F, Lot 22/23 was LRIP, Lot 24 was full production lot for service.

Anything after Lot 24 integrates provisions for AESA, ACS, Updated Countermeasure Systems, New OFP Format, DVMC, AMCD.


 

 


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5 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

 

 

From my experience so far, laser scanning tends to deliver more accurate results, and has a quicker turn over.

Having access to the airframe allows the team to collect high resolution photos of sections not normally photographed by public (internal bays, service doors, etc etc)

 

Yeah I get how it works, Ive been around similar things at lockheed on the P3 program with remanufacturing wings, but its almost a given thats the only other alternative when you dont have access to an airframe.

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On 6/18/2022 at 12:01 AM, SkateZilla said:

Having access to the airframe allows the team to collect high resolution photos of sections not normally photographed by public (internal bays, service doors, etc etc)

I noticed there was no Super Hornet on public display anywhere, which might be a problem. Now, this isn't necessarily a showstopper, but getting access to an aircraft currently in service is a whole other level of complicated. You can find legacy Hornets around the world (mostly the A model, but still), but not a single Superbug. The Strike Eagle and the Typhoon aren't in any museums, either, so it's not impossible, but it's certainly not a trivial concern.

Hopefully, anyone who secures a deal with Boeing will be able to secure access to the actual aircraft, as well. The current legacy Hornet has some cockpit dimensions fudged, I wouldn't want to see a repeat of that.


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1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

I noticed there was no Super Hornet on public display anywhere, which might be a problem. Now, this isn't necessarily a showstopper, but getting access to an aircraft currently in service is a whole other level of complicated. You can find legacy Hornets around the world (mostly the A model, but still), but not a single Superbug. The Strike Eagle and the Typhoon aren't in any museums, either, so it's not impossible, but it's certainly not a trivial concern.

Hopefully, anyone who secures a deal with Boeing will be able to secure access to the actual aircraft, as well. The current legacy Hornet has some cockpit dimensions fudged, I wouldn't want to see a repeat of that.

 

 

The Superhornet itself is not exactly hard to get access to photograph,

I know several photographers, myself included that have base access to photograph aircraft.

There's a few forbidden shots, as somethings are still classified.

For Laser scanning/Reference photo's I wasn't implying the use of "display aircraft" as most static displays have been modified.

The USN allowed MS to Laser scan Airframe's, the main issue with the FS2020 SH, is the cockpit systems are not modelled at all or not modelled to the same depth as DCS.

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Laser scanning is mostly concerned with the cockpit's physical layout. So, it wouldn't differ as much as software does. Besides, we don't need a 2020s Superbug. We need one that would fit with the rest of the modules, and this means an early block circa 2005.

Display models are good enough in most cases. You can't use laser scan data in the raw form, anyway. To get a mesh, you need to do quite a bit of work. This may include correcting differences between the museum piece and the aircraft as it was in the service. You rarely get to scan the exact model you want, anyway, unless you see something in the museum and decide to make it.

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10 hours ago, FoxHoundELite said:

Some of the old Rhino airframes became Blue Angels and Aggressor plane right?

Yes, the Blue Angels have replaced their F/A-18C, D by F/A-18E, F in 2021, and the VFC-12 has Aggressor F/A-18E as PLA Navy/Air Force mock up aircraft.

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17 hours ago, FoxHoundELite said:

Some of the old Rhino airframes became Blue Angels and Aggressor plane right?

Yes, Mainly LRIP 1 and 2 Bunos, were sent to be modified for the Demonstration Team.

2 From VX9, 2 From VFA 122, 1 from VFA 106, and 2 from VX 31 (Both of Which wore the Maverick Livery for Filming of TG:M).
They also have several in reserve.

Most of these Airframes have trapped out, so they no longer deploy to carriers, they are used in Fleet Reserve/Testing/Demonstration Roles.

as Fleet Reserve units are transitioning from LRIP/Block I to Block II or Block III Aircraft, all of the LRIP and Block I's have been sent to either the Demonstration Team or Mothballed.

All Block II Airframes will rotate to Cecil Field to undergo Service Life Extensions and Rebuild to Block III Spec.

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On 6/17/2022 at 5:01 PM, SkateZilla said:

From my experience so far, laser scanning tends to deliver more accurate results, and has a quicker turn over.

Having access to the airframe allows the team to collect high resolution photos of sections not normally photographed by public (internal bays, service doors, etc etc)

Isn't there also a process that can achieve the same results, but by using a bunch of photos of the aircraft from various angles? I heard that Cuban Ace used something similar to help him with the Su57

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2 hours ago, Tank50us said:

Isn't there also a process that can achieve the same results, but by using a bunch of photos of the aircraft from various angles? I heard that Cuban Ace used something similar to help him with the Su57

Do you mean photogrammetry? If so, yes.


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3 hours ago, ObiwanDK said:

🤔 any DCS MOD thoughts on a Block III Super Hornet ???

Unlikely due to the classified nature of the APG-79 and other systems.

As to the topic. The Block I Super Hornet would be nice even if just as an AI unit. As a regular module, having the longer legs and greater payload capacity would be nice along with that bigger MFD screen in the center.

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7 hours ago, CarbonFox said:

Unlikely due to the classified nature of the APG-79 and other systems.

As to the topic. The Block I Super Hornet would be nice even if just as an AI unit. As a regular module, having the longer legs and greater payload capacity would be nice along with that bigger MFD screen in the center.

APG-79 didnt get installed until more than half way through Block II.

LRIP and Block I essentially had Lot 20 Legacy Avionics, and were slowly replaced with new ones halfway through block I and at the start of block II.

 

 


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  • 1 month later...

I think people are missing a much much simpler picture for why the Super Hornet is not a good module for ED to develop: more modern airframes have far more complex avionics systems that eases pilot tasking. Essentially, ED would be spending a lot more time to develop complex avionics for a module we spent less time learning because it almost entirely flies itself. I may be overextending in that the Super Hornet / Rhino / whatever isn't that automated, but if the E variant is not able to fly missions that the C variant can't touch, then the extra time simply isn't worth it. Yes, players will feel a bit cooler "oh wow, I get the latest and greatest Hornet!" but actual gameplay will actually be more dull and less skill based. Last thing I can think of, if some of the extra capabilities are aircraft to aircraft related, the support from other aircraft may simply not be in DCS world to really allow, or it may make the redfor vs blufor aspect too imbalanced.

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4 hours ago, EbonySeraphim said:

I think people are missing a much much simpler picture for why the Super Hornet is not a good module for ED to develop: more modern airframes have far more complex avionics systems that eases pilot tasking. Essentially, ED would be spending a lot more time to develop complex avionics for a module we spent less time learning because it almost entirely flies itself. I may be overextending in that the Super Hornet / Rhino / whatever isn't that automated, but if the E variant is not able to fly missions that the C variant can't touch, then the extra time simply isn't worth it. Yes, players will feel a bit cooler "oh wow, I get the latest and greatest Hornet!" but actual gameplay will actually be more dull and less skill based. Last thing I can think of, if some of the extra capabilities are aircraft to aircraft related, the support from other aircraft may simply not be in DCS world to really allow, or it may make the redfor vs blufor aspect too imbalanced.

Excellent points. In my personal opinion it is just not the right time for the Super hornet just yet.

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8 hours ago, EbonySeraphim said:

I think people are missing a much much simpler picture for why the Super Hornet is not a good module for ED to develop: more modern airframes have far more complex avionics systems that eases pilot tasking.

No one is missing that. It's just the realm of modern warfare. You may prefer to stay with gunfighters and dumb bombing but let the users decide what they want. It's almost insulting to the modern pilots that they are not manly enough in your opinion, yet someone has to flight the new toys to defend and win a real conflict.


Edited by draconus
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I think people are missing a much much simpler picture for why the Super Hornet is not a good module for ED to develop: more modern airframes have far more complex avionics systems that eases pilot tasking. Essentially, ED would be spending a lot more time to develop complex avionics for a module we spent less time learning because it almost entirely flies itself. I may be overextending in that the Super Hornet / Rhino / whatever isn't that automated, but if the E variant is not able to fly missions that the C variant can't touch, then the extra time simply isn't worth it. Yes, players will feel a bit cooler "oh wow, I get the latest and greatest Hornet!" but actual gameplay will actually be more dull and less skill based. Last thing I can think of, if some of the extra capabilities are aircraft to aircraft related, the support from other aircraft may simply not be in DCS world to really allow, or it may make the redfor vs blufor aspect too imbalanced.


Clearly there's a large number of people who don't consider modern aircraft dull or requiring less skill. The amount of time you spend on learning how to operate the jet, its systems and weapons is arguably more than the time you'd need to become competent in flying a non-FBW aircraft (in DCS). The "learning phase" of a modern aircraft module is much longer than, say, a WW2 one. And that's very important for people who like focusing on the "study sim" aspect of DCS.

You can make the capability overlap argument for most modules. Most aircraft of the same period are capable of doing the same things. With the amount of Cold War aircraft currently in DCS, plus those recently announced, the overlap in capabilities will be huge. People like various aircraft for various reasons.

Lastly, you mention the blufor vs redfor balance, which is not really a concern in DCS and shouldn't really be. If a server owner doesn't want to include the Rhino (or the upcoming F-15E and EF Typhoon, for that matter), they don't have to.
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So I saw a thread on Reddit this morning asking if we’ll ever get a super hornet. So what? I hear you cry, that gets asked every other week.

Well as I scrolled down the page I found @NineLine’s response:

“You just never know…”

That is Not a no! 

To quote George from Blackadder goes forth,

Permission to shout Bravo at an annoyingly loud volume, sir?

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8 hours ago, Digitalvole said:

So I saw a thread on Reddit this morning asking if we’ll ever get a super hornet. So what? I hear you cry, that gets asked every other week.

Well as I scrolled down the page I found @NineLine’s response:

“You just never know…”

That is Not a no! 

To quote George from Blackadder goes forth,

Permission to shout Bravo at an annoyingly loud volume, sir?

Literally my post above 😄

Feel the Rush of Superior Air Power

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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