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Community poll for HARM and Maverick on stations 4 and 6


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Community poll for HARM and Maverick on stations 4 and 6  

285 members have voted

  1. 1. Community poll for HARM and Maverick on stations 4 and 6

    • YES - stations 4 and 6 should have HARM and Maverick
      99
    • NO - stations 4 and 6 should not have HARM and Maverick
      186

This poll is closed to new votes


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3 minutes ago, ebabil said:

you do realise this plane is shown on many  countries in the sim with their own AF liveries

 

You do realize Eagle Dynamics is modelling a General Dynamics (now Lockheed Martin) F-16CM (CM means standardized with Common Configuration Implementation Program, CCIP) Block 50 Fighting Falcon "Viper" used by the USAF/ANG from circa. 2007, right?

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then i am asking why it is available for other countries as it is? Greece should use it in the way usaf used it? If pure realism is wanted, if this plane usaf "circa" 2007 thing, then it should be availabla only for USA side with pure usaf liveries only

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Hmmm, tricky question. I'm not sure about this. I only fly offline, so what other people hang off their wings doesn't affect me, and I'm a bit inclined to mess around with implausible loadouts myself (mostly to improve my slim chance of actually hitting anything 🙁). On the other hand, if the DCS F-16 is supposed to represent a specific aircraft, adding stuff because other models carry it looks like a route to feature creep. Not usually a good idea. Really though, this looks like being more of an issue for the multiplayer crowd, and I can understand the obvious concerns there. If I had to vote, I'd probably go with 'no', since one of the major attractions of a simulation like this is learning how to make the best of what you are given. I'll not voting for now though, since like I said, what other people do in the sim isn't an issue for me, and if ED are fine with it (the change presumably won't involve much work), it's their sim, and ultimately their decision. 

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1 hour ago, ebabil said:

you do realise this plane is shown on many  countries in the sim with their own AF liveries

 

 

Adding a livery is completely different from adding avionics or weapons. 

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but both are ruining realism in this logic

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Just now, ebabil said:

but both are ruining realism in this logic

 

I get that you want hyper realism, DCS is a sand box, you can play it how you want to, if you dont like liveries you can choose not to use them in your mission. 

 

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I don't want hyper super master realism. I am ok with 4 harms, more liveries, CFT's, Dragchutes etc. 

So if players want hyper realism, they can not load 4 harms right?

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Just now, ebabil said:

I don't want hyper super master realism. I am ok with 4 harms, more liveries, CFT's, Dragchutes etc. 

So if players want hyper realism, they can not load 4 harms right?

 

We are looking at the data now and getting feedback from you all. We will have to wait and see at the moment. 

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They are modeling an F-16, as used by the USAF and ANG because that's what they have documentation for. They obviously can't deny that other countries are using similar variants of the F-16 and make liveries for those countries and make the F-16 available in the ME. Of course those countries have done some retrofitting with CFTs or Drag Chutes for example. You cannot seriously expect ED to make a completely seperate plane for every single country that has used it. So we are absolutely not getting CFTs, a Dragchute, Harpoons or whatever goodies other countries put on it. Similarly it makes no sense to be able to fire HARMs from the inboard pylons as that was just not possible for the plane they are modeling.

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The team have to draw a line somewhere when creating modules, otherwise feature creep is endless 🙂

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I personally am not very invested in this topic, so from a bit of a neutral stand point, i feel like it is pretty simple, if you model a certain aircraft or model, then it should be modelled according to that aircraft/model.

 

That's about it really, however, i also understand why some would be a bit dissapointed, but i assume for those that want for example a specific aircraft from a specific country, there is always the possibility to mod it to fit your needs.


Edited by Revi
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26 minutes ago, Matti0503 said:

They are modeling an F-16, as used by the USAF and ANG because that's what they have documentation for. They obviously can't deny that other countries are using similar variants of the F-16 and make liveries for those countries and make the F-16 available in the ME. Of course those countries have done some retrofitting with CFTs or Drag Chutes for example. You cannot seriously expect ED to make a completely seperate plane for every single country that has used it. So we are absolutely not getting CFTs, a Dragchute, Harpoons or whatever goodies other countries put on it. Similarly it makes no sense to be able to fire HARMs from the inboard pylons as that was just not possible for the plane they are modeling.

Adding Harpoon and adding 4 HARM aren't same subject for F-16. There is no Harpoon for F-16 but now we already have HARM.

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1 hour ago, ebabil said:

I don't want hyper super master realism. I am ok with 4 harms, more liveries, CFT's, Dragchutes etc. 

So if players want hyper realism, they can not load 4 harms right?

If you want all that then why don't you just go play Ace Combat instead, you clearly don't care for realism. Community made skins don't count as "it is part of other countries too"

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1 hour ago, Matti0503 said:

You cannot seriously expect ED to make a completely seperate plane for every single country that has used it.

That's the point of having a checkbox for an expanded loadout. By default the F-16 in DCS won't be able to carry non US ANG loadouts. The player will have to willingly click the expanded loadout checkbox to enable non standard loadouts to allow a light simulation of other F-16 variants or simply a US one off F-16 modified for testing purposes (great for NTTR missions).

 

DCS is a simulator, ED can't make every aircraft in existence, but they can give us small options that can make a significant difference without taking away any realism.

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12 hours ago, Jackjack171 said:

So, what you are saying is: you want to see the credentials that these people you speak of, are in fact in the Military and work on said system? There is a lot of current and ex-mil here. I'm sure none us would lie about that kind of thing. We are passionate about our former or current craft. 

If in fact that is what you are asking, how do you propose to see said credentials? And I can't speak for anyone else here but, I have never seen any of ED's SME's credentials! Or any other Devs SME's for that matter! I just trust the process!

Please read everything then comment. You clearly read last few posts.

 

I was commenting to a post from a person that asked ED to display facts, then I said where are your facts.

Cause they are only posting quotes from people that say they are military, I don't want to discuss that fact cause we can never know if they are military or not, and I am not asking for such credentials cause they won't post that and if even they do post that who can say those are legit here in the forums, I'm simply trying to point out that speaking here has no value since they cant prove anything without facts/credentials,

 

but they are loud in their cause, and they are just pushing their own opinion without displaying any fact or proof other than "I worked on it and I know".

Well that simply doesn't cut it for me and I hope it won't cut it for ED, I hope ED wont just take someones word no matter how much they know about systems etc...

that is why I'm speaking here, not cause I know a lot about it, I really don't, I just don't like when people try to bully something with constant spam.

 

in the end I'm happy with whatever outcome, be it 4 or 2 HARM as long as it is correct to a simulated aircraft.

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12 hours ago, Jackjack171 said:

If in fact that is what you are asking, how do you propose to see said credentials? And I can't speak for anyone else here but, I have never seen any of ED's SME's credentials! Or any other Devs SME's for that matter! I just trust the process!

 

SMEs that provide information to ED get their credentials checked.   ED had been burned a very long time ago.

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40 minutes ago, FoxOne007 said:

If you want all that then why don't you just go play Ace Combat instead, you clearly don't care for realism. Community made skins don't count as "it is part of other countries too"

You are right. In ace combat, you may run out of fuel if you forget your CFT's or you may end up out of the runway if you don't deploy your dragchute

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For anyone wanting to continue using a non-valid loadout in single player, it is not an issue at all. Making a weapon available on a pylon is a matter of adding a short line code in lua file. (I like having a 4 Harms equiped SEAD wingman when range is not an issue, since times when it was not available in DCS).


But even without any lua change, and since actually in openBeta 4 Harms are available for F16c50, just make a loadout profile with the weapons you like and it will still be available when 4 Harms for Viper will be removed.


For example in picture I kept an old F18c loadout with 2 Mk83 on centerline and it is still working, while 2 Mk83 are not available to add on centerline. So I'll just won't erase the SEAD loadout I like with F16c (6 Mavs + 2 Harms) and it will still be available in singleplayer.

Custom-loadout.jpg

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30 minutes ago, ebabil said:

You are right. In ace combat, you may run out of fuel if you forget your CFT's or you may end up out of the runway if you don't deploy your dragchute

 

 

I hmm.. i believe you just lost your credibility here

 

But to be fair everyone is allowed to have a opinion right? That is why we have this poll in the first place, but i think we should stay a bit relevant here, the question is about the HARMs which for the specific model we have, apparantly, is not compatible with a pair of 4, so for me it is very simple, if it is not compatible then it is not compatible.

 

So talking about dragchutes, and what not is not very relevant, again, if people would like to see that kind of stuff, i assume some of us could potentially make a mod for it, but i do not feel like we should force it upon people

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41 minutes ago, Revi said:

 

 

I hmm.. i believe you just lost your credibility here

 

But to be fair everyone is allowed to have a opinion right? That is why we have this poll in the first place, but i think we should stay a bit relevant here, the question is about the HARMs which for the specific model we have, apparantly, is not compatible with a pair of 4, so for me it is very simple, if it is not compatible then it is not compatible.

 

So talking about dragchutes, and what not is not very relevant, again, if people would like to see that kind of stuff, i assume some of us could potentially make a mod for it, but i do not feel like we should force it upon people

 

I guess you are the credibility rating authority here. 

If someone suggests playing ace combat just because CFT and Dragchute, Then I would like to know how "relevant" they are with a game that never need fuel or landing in the first place. And also I didin't propose cft and dragchute, ı just said i would welcome if those things are implemented too.

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Not really sure why this is even in question tbh.

The wiring doesn't exist for those stations. Period.

 

If ED sat here, and modelled every weapon system that has been tested/loaded onto pylons real world - for DCS modules, we would never see a proper module completed. 

With this logic, we might as well let DCS F16C load every TGP under the sun... (various TGPs have been tested and flown on the Viper irl right?)

 

Voted hard no.

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