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Trouble with IRMAV


JIGGAwest

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Hello,

 

I am having the hardest time with the IR Maverick AGM-65F. Nothing about firing this weapon seems intuitive.

 

This is the only way I can figure out how to fire the weapon. The DMT TV mode slew speed is so much faster than the TPOD. Why can't these be the same slew rate? Why is the Maverick TV mode have an upsidedown slew mode? I get so confused.

 

- TPOD - TPOD SLAVE mode (FIND target, designate)

- Switch to DMT TV mode on right MFD

- Pull up STORES page LEFT MFCD

- Uncage Maverick

- Sensor Select FWD for IRMV mode

- Verify target is locked, if not TDC down

-PICKLE!

 

Is there a way to use the TPOD instead of the DMT? I can never get the IRMAV to lock a target on it's own. If I press TDC down the seeker head just moves to the HUD pipper location. 

 

I'm lost and frustrated! Please help!

 

 

 

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They are a nightmare yes. In my experience after switching from TPOD to IRMV the Mav will never actually be locked on the target but instead of TDC down I just slew it about a bit until it locks. This now works quite well.

 

What I have found is that if I make a mistake in the button presses on the TDC then I can get the system into a state wher nothing works anymore I.e. I can't slew the TPOD or the DMT,sometimes requiring me to quit out and start again. Next time it happens I'll upload a track for Razbam to take a look at.

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I was having the same problems. I started a thread called ‘IRMV again’. The bit of advice I got solved it for me. It was my blunder. I use a T16000m and the 4 way ‘Chinese’ hat switch does not have a ‘depress’. I was reading it as aft, instead of down. I allocated another switch for sss depress and it all fell into place. Understanding how the sensors work together is tricky but vital.  Anyway, probably not helping you. IRMVs are easier with the DMT but more satisfying with the TPOD, as it takes more skill. Watch a bloke called ‘Overkill’ on YouTube. ‘Deephack’ has started a AV8b series on YouTube, he hasn’t got as far as IRMV yet but he’s got a clarity of his own.

 

Going from tpod to IRMV, you will need to sss depress x2 before you sss fwd to switch it to IRMV so you can tdc depress to get a lock.   Alphabet spaghetti 


Edited by stevie02sky.com
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32 minutes ago, stevie02sky.com said:

 

Going from tpod to IRMV, you will need to sss depress x2 before you sss fwd to switch it to IRMV so you can tdc depress to get a lock.   Alphabet spaghetti 

 

Thank you.

 

I do also have TDC depress bound to a separate button. I also have SSS on a different 4-way hat than TDS slew which is on a ministick.

 

But, I'll try the SSS DEPRESS X 2 first, then SSS FWD.  Doesn't this SSS DEPRESS x2 change the TPOD slew mode between HUD and TPOD? I guess IRMAV needs to be in HUD mode to lock? Maybe this is my whole issue. If I'm remembering SSS DEPRESS x2 correctly...

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10 hours ago, netizensmith said:

They are a nightmare yes. In my experience after switching from TPOD to IRMV the Mav will never actually be locked on the target but instead of TDC down I just slew it about a bit until it locks. This now works quite well.

 

What I have found is that if I make a mistake in the button presses on the TDC then I can get the system into a state wher nothing works anymore I.e. I can't slew the TPOD or the DMT,sometimes requiring me to quit out and start again. Next time it happens I'll upload a track for Razbam to take a look at.

 

I'll try the Slew around method. I've never found this easy. Maybe it will be easier with changing the FOV on the IRMAV uncaged TV screen.

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6 minutes ago, JIGGAwest said:

Doesn't this SSS DEPRESS x2 change the TPOD slew mode between HUD and TPOD? I guess IRMAV needs to be in HUD mode to lock? Maybe this is my whole issue. If I'm remembering SSS DEPRESS x2 correctly...

 

Yes. At this moment the TPOD (at least at me) a special mode here you enter and exit with 2x SSS Down. So if you want to use IRMV or ARBS/TV, you need to exit the TPOD mode first.

 

 

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On 2/22/2021 at 8:05 AM, JIGGAwest said:

Is there a way to use the TPOD instead of the DMT? I can never get the IRMAV to lock a target on it's own. If I press TDC down the seeker head just moves to the HUD pipper location.

You do not need DMT at all for maverick slaving to target that you have designated with TPOD. (Do not turn the DMT system Off, as its gimbal can be damaged when flying - Not modeled by Razbam).

 

Use TPOD to find a target. To control the TPOD, have it on the right DDI (you can have it either one but right is the nicer one) and then use SSS double-press to Enter and Exit the TPOD control. So SSS Press 2x to have TDC moving TPOD, and then your SSS is controlling the TPOD functions:

 

  • Up = LTIP that is not modeled by Razbam. It use laser to beam the area to generate a picture when your CCD or FLIR are not capable to see well. It is not ranging mode:
  • Another new feature is the ‘Laser Target Imaging Program’ (LTIP), employing a short wave infrared (SWIR) laser augmented imaging, to enhance the targeting system’s capability to capture images in situations where medium-wave infrared (MWIR) forward-looking infrared and CCD are ineffective. https://defense-update.com/20111022_litening_g4_atp-se.html
  • Left = Switch between Narrow Field Of View and Wide Field Of View. Long press with activate LST mode.
  • Right = Change the FLIR polarity Black Is Hot or White Is Hot. Long press to switch between CCD and FLIR.
  • Aft = Change between PT, AR, MT modes that are contrast based tracking modes. So PT for Point, AR for Area, MT for Moving Target. Long press set the TPOD to INR mode that is for Inertia Tracking, so when you mask the pod, it doesn't lose the contrast lock and go crazy (not modeled by Razbam).

You use TDC and TDC Down (the throttle is almost vertically positioned, so TDC hat is pressed down when going to Action mode, not to Aft) to move and designate targets with the TPOD, and then SSS to control the TPOD. We have now the AV-8B N/A variant and the AV-8B Plus variant with radar would have throttle with two extra features, a spring loaded wheel to adjust TPOD digital zoom In/Out. And then a one button extra next to TDC that will Start/Stop TPOD Laser.

 

Now when you have got the TPOD looking where you want, you have it in proper tracking mode (they are all incorrectly done at the moment) and you want to launch your IR Maverick, you do next things:

 

1) Make sure you have Store Page open on the Left DDI. Without the Store being visible, you can not see the IR maverick video.

2) Press Cage/Uncage button on throttle to see its video on Left DDI. The IR seeker will now move where your TPOD is looking at.

3) Press 2x SSS to Exit TPOD control mode.

4) Press SSS UP to switch to IRMV mode. You can see this in the Maverick video top left corner that it changes from INS to IRMV.

5) Press TDC Down (action) to try lock the target.

6) Launch the Maverick when you have a Lock.

 

To fire a another for new target, take next steps after that:

 

7) Press 2x SSS to Enter TPOD control mode.

8] search a new target with TPOD by moving on it.

9) Uncage the IR seeker.

10) Press 2x SSS to Exit TPOD control mode.

11) Press SSS Up to switch to IRMV mode.

12) Press TDC Down to lock target.

13) Launch Maverick.

 

So basically you go through 1-8 and then you repeat steps 2-8.

 

It is easy to make a mistake with the order when to uncage maverick seeker and when to exit TPOD mode. If you are not in TPOD mode when Maverick seeker is uncaged, it will go where your Flight Path Marker is pointing and lock on there (again unrealistic). And to get it back to where TPOD looks, you need to just switch back to TPOD mode etc. You play just with those few modes to get IR maverick looking right place. So it is critical that you uncage maverick before exiting TPOD mode, and then you press SSS Up to get it controlled so you can lock it and launch it. You can as well then use the NWS/Undesignate button in IRMV mode to change Maverick Field Of View between Wide and Narrow.

 

 

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13 hours ago, Fri13 said:

It is easy to make a mistake with the order when to uncage maverick seeker and when to exit TPOD mode. If you are not in TPOD mode when Maverick seeker is uncaged, it will go where your Flight Path Marker is pointing and lock on there (again unrealistic). And to get it back to where TPOD looks, you need to just switch back to TPOD mode etc. You play just with those few modes to get IR maverick looking right place. So it is critical that you uncage maverick before exiting TPOD mode, and then you press SSS Up to get it controlled so you can lock it and launch it. You can as well then use the NWS/Undesignate button in IRMV mode to change Maverick Field Of View between Wide and Narrow.

 

 

 

I really appreciate your knowledge with the Harrier and TPOD functions. Thank you for sharing.

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  • 10 months later...

There is no need to use the DMT at all - it sucks. I only use it if I can't use the tpod for any reason. So I will use the TPOD to find a target and then uncage the mav and SSS FWD Once. Done. You should be able to ripple 4 mavs in about 12 seconds and still be over 6 miles from target.

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On 12/30/2021 at 3:24 PM, AlphaJuliet said:

Both DMT and TPOD work to slave the IRMV and the original post of this thread is now obsolete 😉

Will the procedure in Fri13's post from last February still work? 

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2 hours ago, FupDuck said:

Will the procedure in Fri13's post from last February still work? 

TL;DR:

No

Detail:

Previously you could have the IRMAV on the Left MFD and the TPOD on the Right MFD. This is no longer possible as the TPOD and MAV share the same video feed/cable, this is now handled by switching between the TPOD and IRMAV modes/display on the Right MFD.

Depreciated method of using the TPOD with IRMAV's - no longer applicable.

 

Current method now that the TPOD/IRMAV video feed limitation is modelled

For more detail check out Chuck's DCS AV-8B Guide, Section 10, page 301

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Oui_4r45YaNdk3iCtxSz-KxxGHuT1x-E/view?usp=sharing

Note that currently (OB 2.7.9.18080),
• slewing in INS mode is pretty broken, with TDC down slewing up, TDC right slewing left, etc.
• Switching to/from TPOD mode (sensor select double tap) - DESELECTS the selected weapon (IRMAV), so you'll need to reselect IRMV on the LH MFD when ready to uncage/view/fire the IRMAV on the RH MFD (I've also seen the IRMAV appear on the left screen but AFAIK that's a random bug).


Edited by Ramsay

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello Guys,

I have an issue with this process that I don't see occurring in some of the instructional videos. I have got the process down with regard to the correct button sequence using the TPOD to track a target and then passing the info to the MAV however, as soon as I uncage the MAV, the MAV video screen appears on the right screen replacing the TPOD screen. Am I missing having something set so this doesn't happen? I have use mark point method so I have the ability to fire all 4 MAVs in one pass but in doing so I not able see each of the four targets on the TPOD as I toggle through each mark point because the TPOD screen has been replaced by the MAV video screen during the attack run. The TPOD screen doesn't return when the MAV leaves the rail either, Its simply the stores page in the right screen and I have to open the TPOD screen if I want it to be displayed. 

I should say that this does not stop me firing four in one run as I have trust in my mark point input and I know once the info has been passed to the INS/Map function for the MAV I don't need the TPOD for the attack but it would be good to keep both screens as I have seen in the videos on YouTube. 

Any clues people?

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30 minutes ago, waistcat said:

Hello Guys,

I have an issue with this process that I don't see occurring in some of the instructional videos. I have got the process down with regard to the correct button sequence using the TPOD to track a target and then passing the info to the MAV however, as soon as I uncage the MAV, the MAV video screen appears on the right screen replacing the TPOD screen. Am I missing having something set so this doesn't happen? I have use mark point method so I have the ability to fire all 4 MAVs in one pass but in doing so I not able see each of the four targets on the TPOD as I toggle through each mark point because the TPOD screen has been replaced by the MAV video screen during the attack run. The TPOD screen doesn't return when the MAV leaves the rail either, Its simply the stores page in the right screen and I have to open the TPOD screen if I want it to be displayed. 

I should say that this does not stop me firing four in one run as I have trust in my mark point input and I know once the info has been passed to the INS/Map function for the MAV I don't need the TPOD for the attack but it would be good to keep both screens as I have seen in the videos on YouTube. 

Any clues people?

Waistcat.

The videos you've been watching are probably old and showing the old procedure and limitations

 

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  • 1 month later...

I've tried using the "new" procedure, and it does work, but the one thing which I have never got to work is the MAV locking (closing the crosshair) without me "jiggling" the seeker head via the TDC slew control. It's odd as both Pukin Dogs and Trickers vids both show that once the Mav is uncaged (after the target being designated by the TPOD) it locks once in range, this never works for me on the latest OB (2.7.10.19473)

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From the screenshot here, I wait until I get within about 10 miles, I uncage to the Mav and it won't fire.

I make sure nozzles are at 0 as well.

I was not able to switch to TPOD des originally, but I remapped my Hotas and got past that and I was sure it would work then, but no. I'm not enjoying this module atm.

AG mode

IRMV

TPOD Des

Uncage Mav, video changes to Mav seeker

Master Arm

Nozzles 0

Still won't fire

111.PNG

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4 hours ago, Ghostrider142 said:

Still won't fire

The most obvious thing missing from your list after

4 hours ago, Ghostrider142 said:

Uncage Mav, video changes to Mav seeker

is

• SSS forward to select IRMV mode
(optionally also select IRMV Narrow FOV)
• lock your target with slews/TDC depress at around 7.6 NM though 5-7 NM is more usual for IR Mavs in other modules.
• Fire

Note if you reselect TPOD mode using SSS double tap, the IRMavs will be deselected and will need to be reselected before you can fire again.

TGP point track followed by uncaging IRMav and entering IRMV mode

Tested in DCS 2.7.10.19473

AV8B IR Mav Test, Sochi, 2_7_10_19473.trk


Edited by Ramsay
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Thank you very much. So I did have IRMAV selected/highlighted but you've made me wonder if I actually have a lock. The TPOD stays locked on the tank even if I have pass back around, but is there some kind of indicator I need to be seeing that tells me I have an actual lock?

I have the 'easy' option ticked in the main menu and I assumed it would create a lock anywhere the slew stops; I'm going to untick that as it is confusing anyway.

Will watch the video and the track and give it a go.

 

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3 hours ago, Ghostrider142 said:

So I did have IRMAV selected/highlighted but you've made me wonder if I actually have a lock.

The IR Mav has a lock/track only when the tracking gates (open cross hairs) close.

AV-8B IR Mav Tracking Gates.jpg

 

3 hours ago, Ghostrider142 said:

The TPOD stays locked on the tank even if I have pass back around, but is there some kind of indicator I need to be seeing that tells me I have an actual lock?

Not for the TPOD when using "area track". Point and Moving Track modes draw a box around the target/vehicle when it's locked/tracking.

 

3 hours ago, Ghostrider142 said:

I assumed it would create a lock anywhere the slew stops; I'm going to untick that as it is confusing anyway.

The TGP becomes ground stabilised or may start tracking when slewing stops, however it does not necessarily create a target point at that time. It's therefore pretty important to use TDC depress once you've found/locked your target to ensure there's a system designation (T0) for the target.

It's something I forget when returning to the Harrier after a break, as the A-10C's TGP, etc. automatically updates it's SPI and I get used to a different work flow.

In the case of the example video, having a "good" system designation for the 1st target meant the TPOD, DMT and uncaged mavericks automatically slewed to the first target, rather than waypoint 2 or the flight path marker.

Without a designation the next IR Maverick can ending up looking far away from the targets, thus requiring a reset/reattack.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 3/11/2022 at 12:56 AM, Ramsay said:

The IR Mav has a lock/track only when the tracking gates (open cross hairs) close.

AV-8B IR Mav Tracking Gates.jpg

 

Not for the TPOD when using "area track". Point and Moving Track modes draw a box around the target/vehicle when it's locked/tracking.

 

The TGP becomes ground stabilised or may start tracking when slewing stops, however it does not necessarily create a target point at that time. It's therefore pretty important to use TDC depress once you've found/locked your target to ensure there's a system designation (T0) for the target.

It's something I forget when returning to the Harrier after a break, as the A-10C's TGP, etc. automatically updates it's SPI and I get used to a different work flow.

In the case of the example video, having a "good" system designation for the 1st target meant the TPOD, DMT and uncaged mavericks automatically slewed to the first target, rather than waypoint 2 or the flight path marker.

Without a designation the next IR Maverick can ending up looking far away from the targets, thus requiring a reset/reattack.

I remember being able to see targets with the IRMAV, but like in the example above, now I really don't see anything anymore just a dark green field. Is there some way to improve the contrast, or go to white-hot mode?

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1 hour ago, malcheus said:

I remember being able to see targets with the IRMAV, but like in the example above, now I really don't see anything anymore just a dark green field. Is there some way to improve the contrast, or go to white-hot mode?

Other than the normal MPD contrast and gain controls, not AFAIK.

The Harrier is now using ED's new FLIR system, so you will need to take that into account.
• Stationary (cold) vehicles have temperatures closer to the ambient background radiation, while moving vehicles are hotter and easier to spot.
• Background temperatures (and perhaps time of day) have a significant effect on how visible an IR source is.

I don't see the problem you are having, maybe you are looking at stationary vehicles in unfavourable conditions/temperatures ?

In this picture the IR Maverick is locked and tracking a MBLT APC leading a convoy of trucks

AV-8B IR Maverick FLIR test, 2_7_11_22041, Screen_220403_135218.jpg

Screen_220403_135031.jpg

 

There is now an even better reason to use the TPOD's CCD to search/ID targets prior to switching to the IR Maverick seeker.

DCS AV-8B TPOD, New FLIR vs Stationary and Moving Tragets.jpg

 


Edited by Ramsay
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1 hour ago, Ramsay said:

Other than the normal MPD contrast and gain controls, not AFAIK.

The Harrier is now using ED's new FLIR system, so you will need to take that into account.
• Stationary (cold) vehicles have temperatures closer to the ambient background radiation, while moving vehicles are hotter and easier to spot.
• Background temperatures (and perhaps time of day) have a significant effect on how visible an IR source is.

I don't see the problem you are having, maybe you are looking at stationary vehicles in unfavourable conditions/temperatures ?

In this picture the IR Maverick is locked and tracking a MBLT APC leading a convoy of trucks

AV-8B IR Maverick FLIR test, 2_7_11_22041, Screen_220403_135218.jpg

Screen_220403_135031.jpg

 

There is now an even better reason to use the TPOD's CCD to search/ID targets prior to switching to the IR Maverick seeker.

DCS AV-8B TPOD, New FLIR vs Stationary and Moving Tragets.jpg

 

 

Ah, thanks for clarifying! I was testing with the mission editor, so I just plonked down some tanks, but then I guess they are cold.

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