My System: Would 32GB Improve It?

[C3PO]

Hi All,

 

While I am waiting for my 5900X system - two months and counting - I am wondering if anyone has experience of going from 16GB of RAM to 32GB with the same system, and what - if any - improvements they have seen? Running currently an i7 6700K / GTX 1080 / M.2 SSD drive. I am generally getting good frame-rates, except in MP occasional pauses on some servers.

[fab.13]

Hello,

Go to 32.

 

Good Freq and low cache latency as possible.
 

DCS memory needs are growing because DCS gives more ( good ) stuff time after time.

 

Check your ram usage with windows performances tool to get conviced

If ram usage are near the physical limit, it's time to add RAM.

Multiplayer need more ram than solo.

 

[Svsmokey]

32 gb will also allow 100% preload radius , minimising in-game terrain loads in sp .

[Bossco82]

Download MSI Afterburner. Use it to check how much dram you are using in game. If it starts knocking on the door of 15200mb then an upgrade to 32gb will be beneficial. 

 

I only went to 32gb when I started using DCS at 4k, big improvement though as all maps use up to 20000mb and Syria can use 25000mb. Thats single player in a DCE campaign. I dont know if it would be the same at 1080p. I do know it improves multi player.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Bossco82

[C3PO]

Thank you - have ordered another 16 GB!

[C3PO]

As for RAM usage, it was hovering in the 13-14GB bracket so I think a bit more RAM is a good thing.

[Thinder]

11 hours ago, C3PO said:

Thank you - have ordered another 16 GB!

 

Adding more RAM is a step forward but you also need to minimize RAM leaks in Windows, disable and/or uninstall all background apps you don't use, in short, keep control of your O.S.

 

Ordering another kit is not always working, the reason is that within the same batch, manufacturers can use different chips and not notify customers, you need to make sure the RAM sticks chips are strictly identical, that's why it is always better to get kits by 2 X 16 GB or 4 X 8GB rather than just adding an extra stick or two.

 

The quality of your RAM is even more important than capacity or speed, you run a Ryzen CPU which works a lot better with lower latencies as it is designed for this purpose, the Zen 3 architecture is meant to reduce latency, so CL14 is better than CL 16/18 for the same frequency.

 

2 ranks on a X2 kit is OK but if you use 4 X sticks, the best combination for Ryzen is single ranks for ranks interleaving for as long as you don't get bonker with frequencies, because the controller always have more problems at higher frequencies and will throttle down your buses, including CPU-to-VRAM-GPU bus, with loss in performances under load.

 

AMD recommand 3200MHz for this reason, limiting frequency allows the CPU to make full use of its architecture when bounded with a RAM kit with lower frequencies and single rank.

 

B.die works very well with Ryzen 2 and 3 too, those sticks are manufactured specifically for Ryzen CPUs, so there are a range of solutions from the one you had in mind to full optimization for a Ryzen CPU RAM, the price of the kits will variate accordingly to the quality of the kits.

 

Personally for a Ryzen, I'd recommand CL14, 4 X 8GB 3200MHz, single rank, B.Die, you can downgrade your list in this order depending on your budget.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Thinder

[C3PO]

Just did a test with Resource Monitor and there many hard faults, it seems, and memory hovvering around the 14GB+ area - so clearly the system is struggling. Today the extra 16GB arrives for this current system (i7 6700K). I am wondering if I should go for 64GB for the new 5900X system, although it seems to be getting a bit ridiculous these memory requirements.

Edited February 26, 2021 by C3PO

[Oceandar]

For other games having 32Gb is ridiculous but not for DCS particularly in Syria Map (DCS High setting). I've been playing MP (inferno mission server) when many players joined it ate almost 28Gb of RAM.

[Thinder]

51 minutes ago, C3PO said:

Just did a test with Resource Monitor and there many hard faults, it seems, and memory hovvering around the 14GB+ area - so clearly the system is struggling. Today the extra 16GB arrives for this current system (i7 6700K). I am wondering if I should go for 64GB for the new 5900X system, although it seems to be getting a bit ridiculous these memory requirements.

 

 

Again, it's not just a question of adding RAM, especially with the Ryzen 3, it's a good bound between CPU and RAM that will make the difference for you.

 

What works with those CPUs is the reduced latency, that's due to the Zen 3 architecture which is meant to use the buses to the full and the controllers which have limits in frequencies depending on number of ranks and sticks.

 

If you use 4 X 2 ranks 3600MHz for example, your CPU controller will throttle down at full load, it will not be using rank interleaving regardless of the capacity of your RAM, 32 GB and 64BG alike, the two extra stick will be more of a waste of money and that's even before counting on how lucky you can be to have similar chips on the added RAM.

 

You'll be far better off buying an optimized kit, 3200MHz, single rank 4 X 8 GB even if they have a premium attached to them because the gain in latency for which the CPU are conceived will be greater, especially in gaming.

 

 

Here is what AMD emailed me on the subject of ranks and frequencies.

 

 

Before purchasing my actual RAM kit, I was looking for solutions and struggled to find a 4 X kit of the type I wanted, so I asked support for the G.Skill manufacturer. Here is their reply.

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Thinder

[Thinder]

Just for your info. I gained 6.04% CPU speed just by changing my RAM kit, same frequency (3200MHz), from 2 ranks 2 X 16 GB to a 1 rank 4 X 8 GB, that's close to 2GB in capacity if you compute just the percentage without taking the full effect of the more efficient RAM-to-CPU bound, because it didn't affect only the CPU but the GPU as well.

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/252271-amd-5000-series-cpu-performance-in-dcs/?do=findComment&comment=4552794

 

That's logical when you think of it, CPU uses VRAM buses consistently, even without the Zen3 Smart Access Memory, since Zen 2 shared graphics memory, so if the CPU doesn't throttle this bus down, your GPU can run faster.

 

The key to better performances with Ryzen 5000 series is the bound with RAM.

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Thinder

[C3PO]

2 hours ago, Thinder said:

 

Again, it's not just a question of adding RAM, especially with the Ryzen 3, it's a good bound between CPU and RAM that will make the difference for you.

 

What works with those CPUs is the reduced latency, that's due to the Zen 3 architecture which is meant to use the buses to the full and the controllers which have limits in frequencies depending on number of ranks and sticks.

 

If you use 4 X 2 ranks 3600MHz for example, your CPU controller will throttle down at full load, it will not be using rank interleaving regardless of the capacity of your RAM, 32 GB and 64BG alike, the two extra stick will be more of a waste of money and that's even before counting on how lucky you can be to have similar chips on the added RAM.

 

You'll be far better off buying an optimized kit, 3200MHz, single rank 4 X 8 GB even if they have a premium attached to them because the gain in latency for which the CPU are conceived will be greater, especially in gaming.

 

 

Here is what AMD emailed me on the subject of ranks and frequencies.

 

 

Before purchasing my actual RAM kit, I was looking for solutions and struggled to find a 4 X kit of the type I wanted, so I asked support for the G.Skill manufacturer. Here is their reply.

 

 

 

Hi - I'm running an i7 6700K...

Edited February 26, 2021 by C3PO

[Thinder]

35 minutes ago, C3PO said:

 

Hi - I'm running an i7 6700K...

 

 

Then it's up to you to figure which RAM kit is best for Intel processors but there are RAM kits which are more or less suited for Intel CPUs, and as far as I know, they both make use of VRAM buses.

 

Have a look at Intel users forums like I did for my AMD, experienced users will give you good tips on the subject such as this:

 

Quote

I feel like a good balance is to pick lower latency versions of RAM that isn't clocked at such a high speed. Yes, higher speed RAM will generally have demonstrably better bandwidth but CL12 2133 will also be a good bit faster than CL14 2133 without needing a clock speed increase and the cost might be less than the higher speed modules.

vhttps://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/4hhrlo/best_ram_for_an_i76700k/

 

Obviously your CPU is not reacting to RAM specs the same way as a Ryzen 3 or even 2, but it seems that the frequency is 2133MHz and the latency CL12.

 

I haven't have a look at the way the Intel uses ranks, it might or not do rank interleaving, that's one thing I figured after researching for the AMD, but if I were you, I'd stick to those specs for your processor unless you find better tips from Intel users, still lower latency is always better.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Thinder

[C3PO]

So I went from this...

 

 

...to this:

 

 

Flew another MP mission in Syria and now 29GB of memory is being used!? DCS seems to gorge memory to the point of gross obesity.

Edited February 26, 2021 by C3PO

[C3PO]

Is it any smoother? Err... so far no 

[Bossco82]

Ok C3PO,

 

Can you please post up your system specs in full including model numbers. Please include your monitor and connection type. HDMI or DP etc.

Then take a screenshot of your DCS settings and post that too.

In addition can you run DCS with "fullscreen" set to OFF. Load up a mission, any mission and leave it running. ALT TAB out while it is running and check resource monitor for your CPU and Dram usage. Then check GPUZ for your graphics card usage.

Lets see if we can help you get to the bottom of the problem.

 

To answer your previous question about 32>64gb. I would leave it at 32gb for now.

 

I am 99% self sufficient now solving any computer/game issue. However I only got there learning from the advise of others.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Bossco82

[Thinder]

17 hours ago, C3PO said:

Flew another MP mission in Syria and now 29GB of memory is being used!? DCS seems to gorge memory to the point of gross obesity.

 

I wish it had worked but it was to be expected.

DCS is not the only reason why RAM can be an issue, people doesn't realize how important bounding RAM to CPU is, Intel like AMD, you can double the amount of RAM, if your CPU has to throttle back your buses because the controller can't cope, the extra RAM is wasted even if used.

 

All this does is fill RAM space with data that isn't transfered fast enough through buses, and that's why RAM use looks so important, if it was used more efficiently, data wouldn't bottleneck and you'd see a lower amount of RAM necessary for the same amount of data transfer or/and a much smoother gaming experience with higher FPS, optimized RAM can give you up to 10% more FPS.

 

Also, if you want people to be able to help you, you should provide us with a lot more precise specs on your P.C, in particular the RAM, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz is too vague to figure it out, you'll need to figure the chips (to make sure they are fully compatible), the number of ranks, the Latency, your motherboard settings and I'm curious to know why you use 3200MHz with this CPU while a 4 X 8GB CL12 2133 kit might give you a better result...

 

Apparently, since this game uses only 1 Core effectively, the percentage of RAM efficiency is equally biased toward frequency and Latency, so there is little advantage in using higher frequencies at higher latency.

 

Look at your CPU specs:

 

Quote

Memory Types DDR4-1866/2133, DDR3L-1333/1600 @ 1.35V

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/88195/intel-core-i7-6700k-processor-8m-cache-up-to-4-20-ghz.html

 

fab.13 mentioned Good Freq and low cache latency as possible for a good reason, apparently, this is what give you the best result with the Intel, a bit similar to the Ryzen 2, I don't even see 3200MHz listed there, and the reason is the same as what AMD mentioned in their reply to my questionsa: Controllers struggle at higher frequencies with limited bandwidth and high latency.

 

Intel Skylake is even better than AMD Ryzen 2 for lower latencies, that's why users advise CL12 at lower frequencies, I wouldn't be surprised if the best results were obtained with single rank sticks too...

 

What I described for the Ryzen might well have its equivalent for Intel CPUs and it worth researching before even thinking about adding an extra RAM kit, if one have to spend money on upgrade, might as well make sure they bring a significant gain.

 

To finish, just to make sure there is no misunderstanding: People can assist you in making the best of what you have, there is no way anyone is going to make a low specs system runs like a high specs one, I don't expect my mid-end to get close to a high end PC but instead I optimized it to make sure it works at its best.

 

The map you're trying to run causes even high end systems to struggle, so don't raise your expectations too high.

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by Thinder

[C3PO]

Hi All - thanks for your help - here are the full specs:

 

Monitor is Samsung 4K 40” TV 60Hz connected via HDMI ... super smooth usually in simple missions and other games.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by C3PO

[C3PO]

...I am also wondering if it is an issue with the server hosting the mission. Today will run those tests in non full screen mode as requested, but also try Through The Inferno in single player. My issues might be down to the inefficiencies of the hosting system.

[Thinder]

36 minutes ago, C3PO said:

...I am also wondering if it is an issue with the server hosting the mission. Today will run those tests in non full screen mode as requested, but also try Through The Inferno in single player. My issues might be down to the inefficiencies of the hosting system.

 

Everything slowing the game from your side is possible, including broadband, but let focuse on your system basics.

 

Your motherboard supports a range of RAM going from 2133 MHz to 3866 MHz when O.Ced, but if you look carefully, the only frequency not O.Ced is 2133 MHz.

 

To be honnest I don't know the full effect of using a RAM kit running at 3200 MHz from stock but if you take the way RAM works, the O.C options are meant to allow for options to run at twice the speed of your controller FLCK with a Ryzen, so you should have a look at your BIOS to see what your motherboard XMP settings are, make sure it is 1600 @ 1.35V.

 

The CPU tolerates a 3200MHz frequency, mostly because the controller will run at 1600 @ 1.35V XMP 2.0, but at this stock RAM frequency, you loose the advantage of lower latency which is one of the strong points of your CPU and also rank interleaving; if your RAM is dual ranked, the CPU will struggle under load and throttle back its buses.

 

This alone can explain the poor results you get from doubling your RAM capacity with dual rank sticks and run a higher frequency than 2133 MHz.

 

I couldn't find any CL12 RAM kits but you still can find CL14 those days, they are just a little more difficult to find, CL16 for a 3200MHz kit is average and offers no real advantage, the Crucial kit I had previous to my G.SKILL was a dual rank CL16 2 X 16GB 3200MHz, similar to your kit, the CPU ran 6.04% slower with it and it overclocked poorly.

 

I am not going to advise you to change RAM because you're planning to run a 5900X but for it, I would strongly advise to look at a CL 14, single rank, 4 X 8 GB 3200 MHz kit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by Thinder

[C3PO]

Some screens of Resource monitor in MP server on Harrier at Incirlik:

 

 

 

I'll investigate whether other games gobble up as much RAM. I suspect they don't ...

Edited February 27, 2021 by C3PO

[C3PO]

Memory settings at idle without DCS running

 

 

[Thinder]

4 minutes ago, C3PO said:

Memory settings at idle without DCS running

 

 

 

You need to look at the SPD page for the number of ranks, number of channels does concern mostly the motherboard.

 

After you ran the test and validate it in their website, you'll have every single parameter for your PC, including the top frequencies.

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by Thinder

[C3PO]

[C3PO]

Doing those ranks things now...

And this is the MP server ... (top)

 

 

I think the problems are that I am running at 4K with an 8GB GFX card.... VRAM is maxed in game.