Apache control mapping recommendation from a REAL Apache pilot

[NWGJulian]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb sobe:

bradmick

 

I have been looking at your alternative Warthog key system and have two questions.  Could you please clarify what the different colors stand for.  Also, could you please explain Mode1, Mode 2 and especially "both".    I have a spare joystick that I might you as a second joystick for the Tedac.  This is going to be fun figuring all this out.

NWGJulian

 

Could you please add a legend for what the colors mean on your Hotas.  Thanks.

 

you are probably right, i should add a legend for it.

but to make it short:

 

red means no modifier at all, red is always working, indepent of any modifier state

 

green applies when you put the pinky switch on the throttle forward (it is called „modifier fcr **“ on the sheet)

 

blue applies when you put the pinky switch on the throttle backwards (it is called „modifier tads *“ on the sheet)

[NWGJulian]

i made two seperate sheets now: one for pilot and another for the gunner.

 

the sheet from my pdf above was basically for the gunner (tedac controls).

the pilots sheet is obviously a lot simpler, because the whole tedac controls are missing.

 

this is all - as said before - 100% WIP, so expect large changes here as soon as the module arrives. as a non-apache pilot in reallife, there is obviously a lot of confusion about the controls itself, which hopefully gets solved when the EA hits.

 

but maybe they work as a starting point.

its also a lot of fun to create such sheets and generally to think into the controls of such a beast!  

 

ideas are - like always - welcomed!

AH-64D APACHE GUNNER TMWH HOTAS.pdf AH-64D APACHE PILOT TMWH HOTAS.pdf

Edited September 21, 2021 by NWGJulian

[fargo007]

Anyone considering doing an Xbox controller for the TEDAC? 

 

If possible I would hard mount it so I can use muscle memory for grabbin' at it. 

[MRTX]

Since I'm not really willing to pay thousands of dollars for a replica TEDAC I'm definitely going to use a xbox controller.

 

I also remeber back in the day, most arcades and electronics stores have mounted their controllers on something simmilar to a somewhat flexible boom arm. (sadly i can't remember whom they were manufactured by)

[fargo007]

Not sure if it sucks or not but....

 

http://www.partsforsnowplows.com/OEM_Fisher_Flex_Arm_Kit_62490_p/62490.htm

 

or...

 

https://www.brainwavzaudio.com/products/under-desk-controller-holder

Edited September 21, 2021 by fargo007

[hannibal]

I'm trying to build a tedac. Already taking up one USB controller for mfd section..

 

If I had to limit the two grips down to 40 functions (32 buttons + 4 way hat and 1 analog mini stick)

 

What would you suggest as the least important of functions on the tedac grips)

Edited October 5, 2021 by hannibal

[GoodHope]

Deleted--posted in wrong forum.

Edited October 19, 2021 by GoodHope

[Draken35]

I'm using this mount:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P2VK93P/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Feels really good and it should work with wired gamepads too

 

 

[hannibal]

Genius..

I like it..simple and effective 

Edited October 26, 2021 by hannibal

[Draken35]

16 minutes ago, hannibal said:

Genius..

I like it..simple and effective 

 

and not too expensive ... for a welcome change  

Kudos to @bradmick and @fargo007 for the ideas!

 

[kgillers3]

@Draken35 Nice set up! It looks flexible too so you can just move it down to where it's comfortable when you're targeting for a while. 

[Draken35]

It is flexible but it does takes some force to flex it... To be honest, I'm impressed with the quality and presentation of that $17 mount

[kgillers3]

1 minute ago, Draken35 said:

It is flexible but it does takes some force to flex it... To be honest, I'm impressed with the quality and presentation of that $17 mount

That's awesome

[sobe]

bradmick

After looking at various alternatives for my WH HOTAS, I have decided to initially go with your WH/Xbox combo. 

However, I found an old CH Fighterstick joystick that is the same as the WH joystick except it does not have the front lever.  So I coded the CH Fighterstick about the same as you did for the Xbox controller.  The one function that I seem to be missing is the Sight Manual Tracker/thumbforce controller.  I am hoping to be able to use the X/Y axis on the CH Fighterstick for that purpose.  Any thoughts on that?

The one suggestion that I have for your profile is to consider swapping the location of  the RTS commands and the FCR FOV commands.  Many of us use Viacom Pro/Voice attack which uses the mic buttons on the throttle for all modules in the game.  Therefore, having the RTS commands on the mic button would ease the setup for Viacom.   

 

[kgillers3]

5 hours ago, sobe said:

 

However, I found an old CH Fighterstick joystick that is the same as the WH joystick except it does not have the front lever.  So I coded the CH Fighterstick about the same as you did for the Xbox controller.  The one function that I seem to be missing is the Sight Manual Tracker/thumbforce controller.  I am hoping to be able to use the X/Y axis on the CH Fighterstick for that purpose.  Any thoughts on that?

 

 

I mean I’m planning on trying to run just the joystick and collective axis’s that I have vs running another controller but that’s because I don’t wanna hold something, and in the aircraft the tedac handles are fixed so my hands just rest there.  Nothing wrong with y’all’s plan.  Using another joystick as the thumb force controller, you can easily get away with it you may want to bump up the sensitivity settings for slewing zoomed in but idk how sensitive it’ll be in dcs. Could easily work. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by kgillers3

[sobe]

kgillers3

As I mainly play single player, I have Voice Attack commands for pause and active pause so if I need the time, I can grab my 3rd joystick.  Hopefully, as I learn the Apache, I can go back to just 2 sticks. 

As an aside, I developed this Helios profile for the view ports so I can use my top screen primarily for the HUD, etc. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by sobe

[kgillers3]

1 hour ago, sobe said:

kgillers3

As I mainly play single player, I have Voice Attack commands for pause and active pause so if I need the time, I can grab my 3rd joystick.  Hopefully, as I learn the Apache, I can go back to just 2 sticks. 

As an aside, I developed this Helios profile for the view ports so I can use my top screen primarily for the HUD, etc. 

 

Never said not too, do what’s comfortable for you. It’s your setup. 

x and y access on the joystick as thumb force controller, i stick by what I said you’ll probably want to bump up sensitivity. Otherwise as soon as you zoom in you’ll be max deflection. 

[Toni Carrera]

Hi @kgillers3

Did you manage to progress on your Helios profile. If so, would you be able to show the update, or even more cheekly, perhaps provide the file, so that I/we may build upon it

Thanks

Toni

 

[kgillers3]

12 minutes ago, Toni Carrera said:

Hi @kgillers3

Did you manage to progress on your Helios profile. If so, would you be able to show the update, or even more cheekly, perhaps provide the file, so that I/we may build upon it

Thanks

Toni

 

Don't have helios. 

Sorry Toni. 

This weekend I'll look into it and try and throw something together if it helps you. 

[Toni Carrera]

Sorry, my mistake, it was @sobe that I meant to mention

My apologies, just saw your name at the top of post and brain went wrong direction for the message

Toni

[sobe]

no update yet.

[Mt5_Roie]

Any thoughts on how to add George commands to the mix?

[sobe]

bradmick

Now that the manual is out, have you thought of any changes to your profile?  In the single controller profile (without the Xbox controller), could you please provide a legend as to the colors.  What are your thoughts in using a switch (as opposed to a modifier) for the controls only used by the CPG?

[robk64]

On 4/17/2021 at 12:02 PM, Raptor9 said:

 

Short answer: Maybe, maybe not.  It depends on how stable you have the aircraft in it's flight path using the force trim.

 

Long answer: The Apache is like the A-10C, in that it only has hold modes, no coupled autopilot like the Ka-50.  You could get the aircraft trimmed up real stable, and engage the altitude hold to control the collective, but the attitude might eventually drift to a point that any altitude hold system will not be able to compensate; as is the case with most aircraft when you try to control one axis of movement without properly paying attention to the others.

 

On 9/16/2021 at 1:52 AM, NWGJulian said:

thanks for the docs, altough i have a few questions:

1. what exactly is meant with PAN TADS? i cant find that on the discription page of the systems. is this the slew of the cursor? or is the cursor slew just on the tdc slew on the throttle axis?

2. what is the difference between the normal cursor (on mission grip and left tedac) and the thumbforce controller?

3. some bindings that i miss, but i am not sure if they are needed: cursor display select (thats a button, right? sounds like the SOI button on the f18/a10), CSCOPE button, FLIR/PLRT button, sensor select switch (on tedac) and laser spot tracker mode switch

4. also, what about the FCR mode switch? this looks like a pretty important button, due its on the mission grip and on the TEDAC control grip (gmt, tpm, rmap and atm)

5. boresight/polarity switch? no need for this?

 

i actually made an own version of your profile, with some slight changes, not sure if its nonsense

 

AH-64D APACHE PILOT TMWH HOTAS.pdf 1.12 MB · 92 downloads

 

1. Pan just freezes the TSD page so you can pan around the map.  

2. Normal cursor on the collective and left handgrip is to move around on the MPDs like a mouse pointer.  Thumb Force Controller (or Manual Tracker) is for moving a sight around, like the TADS or FCR.

3. Nut yet to be cracked.

4. You'd think Thrustmaster would pick up on the need/desire for said control sticks.

5. FLIR Polarity reversal is nice to have.  If you can map it, do so.

Yes, I'm another (former) Apache pilot.  Flew A/D/E's from 1999 to 2019.  Flew Hawks and Hueys for a few years before that.  Taught at Rucker almost half my career.  Great machine, but it's getting long in the tooth.  Was fun while it lasted, but we're due for something better.

[bradmick]

6 hours ago, sobe said:

bradmick

Now that the manual is out, have you thought of any changes to your profile?  In the single controller profile (without the Xbox controller), could you please provide a legend as to the colors.  What are your thoughts in using a switch (as opposed to a modifier) for the controls only used by the CPG?

Not really, my last update is listed and I deleted the single device version. I’ve had zero issues testing, and all the functions I have on there I use, and anything that’s not I don’t. I can pan the cursor on the TSD, cursor acquisition easily, and use the tads no problem also. The third party software requirement is I suppose the only downer. I might go back and rework the HOTAS only option, but given how well the HOTAS and XBOX controller solution has worked, no real need to at this stage. 
 

The setup I’m running mirrors the aircraft as close as devices allow, so it’s pretty comfy to me. My flight controls are for flying and my controller is my tedac analog.

Edited March 5, 2022 by bradmick